Aimee revisits her grief after watching the finale of Ted Lasso (warning: spoiler alerts) and Rebecca and Aimee discuss the complicated feelings around saying goodbye.
Where to find Aimee:
Where to find Rebecca:
Aimee revisits her grief after watching the finale of Ted Lasso (warning: spoiler alerts) and Rebecca and Aimee discuss the complicated feelings around saying goodbye.
Where to find Aimee:
Where to find Rebecca:
Welcome to Bonjola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each moved from the United States to Europe to become expats, Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure, encourage you to follow your own move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:bonjola, Amy.
Track 1:Bonjola, Rebecca.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:I hear that you would like to share with us a story of Ted Lasso.
Track 1:The story of Ted Lasso. Um, like, many of our brethren, sistren, I, um, I am late to the Ted Lasso game. We were late to the Ted Lasso game. We started, yeah, we, we started it, you know, when everybody was talking about it, and for whatever reason, we couldn't get into it. So we set it aside for a couple years. Um, and came back to it here and it just really, yeah, it's a great show, right? I don't need to sell anybody on Ted Lasso.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:No, if anybody hasn't watched it, highly recommend.
Track 1:Yes. And perhaps stop where you're stop where stop listening right now because there's going to be some spoilers,
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:It's true. I guess I have to remember to do that. Yes. Um, we will be talking all things Ted Lasso today. What was it that struck your heart? I mean, okay, let me back that up. Obviously, When I, when it first came out, neither of us were moving from our home countries. Now you live in Spain in nine days. I will live in Paris. Watching somebody go through that is compelling and gripping so that just automatically, of course, we're more interested in Ted Lasso now because he went through that. I'm out of my home world experience, but what was it that struck your heart, Amy?
Track 1:So at the very end, right? The last, the last episode. when everyone is, um, you know, asking him to stay, not wanting to go, not wanting him to go and he has to go. Right. And he chooses, like he chooses to leave this amazing work environment with his work family and all these people that love him, where he has made such a great difference to go back to America. Because his child needs him, because he did it for his son, right? And, to quote, to quote Roy Kent, I was like, Fuuuuuuuuuuuck. Because, that's, like, that is, It was just such a mirror of, of my experience leaving, leaving the clinic in Seattle and saying goodbye to my patients. And I still, like, I still miss my patients so much and I miss my coworkers so much. And, um, I miss that work environment. I miss the stimulation of different personalities and the pace of it is hectic. Um, But, I mean, there's a part of me that thrives on that. I grew up in restaurants, and there's also a part of me that will always miss waitressing. Because of that, that pace, right? And then you close it at the end of the night, you're done. You got an apron full of cash and tips, right?
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:kind of hit of accomplishment. That's.
Track 1:Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and so, so, you know, and he And it's just like it gutted me because, yeah, that's a huge, I, I remember early on, you know, early on in, in discussing this happening, uh, uh, a friend of mine and you know, my, my running coach was like, you know, you're, you're sacrificing your career. If you do this, like it's going to be such a huge impact on your career. And you know, as, as women, when we take a career hit, we don't get it back as easily. As men do, and my response to him was, but I, I have to do this for my son.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Yeah.
Track 1:I don't want my child growing up in this country because like we don't have, we don't have the social network and the community to protect him from the culture and when you look at what's happening to. When you look at the stats on American men, in terms of, in terms of, um, mental health, in terms of, of, you know, jobs and, and everything else, like, like men are, the, the average Joe is having a really, really hard time right now and, we're in a cultural moment where to be, um, A white guy is, is one of the worst things you can be in America. You, you are the, you are automatically vilified. it is original sin to be born white and male in America. And America likes to talk about how secular they are, but fuck, this shit looks religious to me.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Well, what's interesting. So when you told me you wanted to talk about Ted Lasso, I was actually thinking about it from a very different perspective and it's interesting to me because it's two sides of the same coin. So you really resonated with him having to sacrifice a work dream and journey and family to take care of his son. I actually was watching it from the lens of. The same thing, except for the adventure for me is the expat. It's the going into this other world and then leaving behind this adventure, which I guess is his work, but it's so interesting. Cause I look at his work. I look at your work as a nutritionist. I look at my work as a business coach and it's a special kind of work. It's not like you're leaving behind. You know, a cubicle where you are a meaningless cog in a machine. you're you're having to choose between two really good things. And, and that's, it's one thing to say goodbye to something. Unpleasant or whatever, but you know, they, they say every, every end is a beginning, every beginning is an end. And I am powerfully feeling that right now.
Track 1:Mm
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:there's something weird when you have as much agency and choice as we do. We are choosing to uproot our lives. And we're choosing a different one and there's a huge amount of pressure that comes with that. Like this sense of, well, I hope this works. I hope I'm strong enough. I hope I get it right. I hope people don't hate me. And the hate me comes from both sides too, because I'm feeling, I don't know what you felt, but all of the guilt around leaving people for this grand adventure. And then on the other side, worrying that French people, or in your case, Spanish people won't like you. You're so untethered. And you're so responsible for every decision that you just made. That's making you weep in the corner. Yeah,
Track 1:all my fault. I did this to myself. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, I don't, you know, and we are, I mean, the consistent feedback I got from patients was was essentially, Oh my God, you're so lucky. I'm jealous.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:me too.
Track 1:And, you know, and, and, and there was probably one or two who were, who were just, who were like really in their own experience of me leaving where it took them some time to then circle back around to that. Um, and I don't, I haven't felt terribly guilty. About leaving work, I think because I knew this was coming for so long, um, you know, it was essentially in process mentally, you know, and then, and then logistically for two
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Us too. It that's something I want people to hear that
Track 1:Yeah.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:about if you're a grown person in your forties ish,
Track 1:And not spontaneous, but giving serious consideration to the impact of this choice.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:that's the thing I was thinking about that a lot the last few days, if we were 18 and grabbing a backpack and going around the world, that's not what this is. We are. Tax paying citizens with pensions and stuff or whatever we've got dismantling your life to, I have found, and you found takes about two years of planning. First planning what you're going to do, and then literally dismantling the previous life. It's not a quick thing.
Track 1:No, no. So, I mean, I, so there was, there were waves of grief, you know, starting at the moment we were, I realized like, yeah, this is, this is happening. We're going to go. And I think, you know, to like beyond the patients, the work team I had was. It's the colleagues I, I, the colleagues I left behind in the hell hole that is healthcare in the United States, right? I do feel guilt about that. Like, like I left them in hell and I know it's only been like a rapidly descending pile of shit rolling down the mountain at them, but, um, God, healthcare is so messed up right now. Um, but you don't, you know, it's, it's. The consistent feedback I got when I talked about, you know, my experience with my team at our clinic in healthcare was like that You are so lucky that never happens, right? No, bitchy office politics. No backstabbing. No caddy. Like we were all we're all super supportive and and encouraging of each other and that I think it's really reflected in the patient care that our patients get as well. So it was a really, it was a really sacred time for me. A really sacred and beautiful, you know, three years I had there. And, um, I knew leaving it, I'm like, like, you're never going to have this again. You know? Like this is, this is a very, very special thing here. It's not something that's easily reproducible. So, so watching Ted leave that, and have that resolve within him, right, just brought up, it reminded me of the intensity of my own experience when I was in his shoes in that, in that space. I was like, I've got to do this. I have to do this for, you know, for, for my son's future. And I have to do this for my mental health as well. Right. Like for my sanity. Um, and for like for the health of our family, really.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:I think having that North star is really important because. What we're doing, any grand adventure, this isn't just expatting grand adventures are adventures because they're hard because there are dragons lurking behind the mountains, you know? And so you have to have some reason for going forward and not retreating. Many people who don't thrive as expats, when it gets hard, they do retreat. They hide in their little tiny apartment or whatever the
Track 1:Mm hmm. Mm
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:And you have to have something that drags you out every single day to go. Experience the grand adventure of finding toothpaste in a foreign language because the grand adventure is wrapped up in all these tiny hard moments. and we left behind a place where we were expert, where we were helping, where we had meaning and purpose. And there is meaning and purpose to what we're doing, but it is not the same meaning and purpose.
Track 1:hmm.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:How are you finding your new Sense of that in Spain?
Track 1:I wouldn't say that I'm finding it in Spain yet. Um, the extra hours that I have with my time, um, now that, you know, things are largely settled and I know where to get
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Yes.
Track 1:I would say, I would say it's, right now I'm, I'm finding my meaning in podcasting. You know, in a sense, because I've like, I've left the place where I've always practiced, you know, the, the country I've always practiced and, and I have, you know, at this point I have two decades of experience under my belt. So I'm, and I'm solidly midlife.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Yes.
Track 1:So I'm in this place where I'm doing a bit of reflecting on. The, the knowledge that I've accumulated in these years, and I'm being able to, I'm being able to capture that and preserve it. And in a sense, leave my legacy through podcasting
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:That makes sense.
Track 1:by, yeah, by sharing my insights by sharing, some of these, these pieces of what it takes to make a big change in your life.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Yes. and, and, I love how it's aligned with your work because as nutritionist, you really are trying to help people live their healthiest, best lives. But that is. So easily disrupted by making other decisions to try and live your best life, like all my struggles with not overworking or moving to another country and trying to figure out how do you access the nutrition you need? Because I find that a healthy eating comes through habits. It has to become list. And there is nothing mindless about making a big change and then still trying to be healthy through that big change. That's really hard.
Track 1:It is. It is. And even, I mean, even when you're not disrupting your living situation, when you're just a normal person in their life, and the only thing that's changing is how you eat and how you shop. It's a big change. And, you know, people People are doing it because they want to feel better and be healthier so that they can do the things that they are on this earth to do, right? And that's what's always driven me is, is, is helping people have that energy and, and that vitality to be able to do what they want to be doing in their lives. And yeah, change is hard. I'm taking all the stuff that's in my brain and instead of, Writing a book like my great grandmother thought I would end up doing or, um, or something else. It's, it's become podcasting and so that's giving me a lot of purpose and a lot of, a lot of meaning right
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:And for anybody who is listening and doesn't know the name of the podcast that we're talking about is not Bon Jovi. You're talking about
Track 1:Blasphemous nutrition.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:excellent podcast. If I may say so.
Track 1:Oh, do you listen?
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:I, Amy, we're friends.
Track 1:I don't know. I mean, I, I just, I'm creating this without any expectation that anybody is going to listen because I don't want to get my hopes up.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Broadcasting is sort of like talking into the void and hoping somebody is out there listening. I have
Track 1:Right? Yeah.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:My husband and I have talked many times about whether we should have sort of an impromptu gathering before we leave. So this summer. It's now February. So this last summer, we had a bunch of outdoor movie parties trying to say, okay, everybody just come on over. Let's celebrate. We're leaving the country. Now what's funny about that is everybody is like, haven't you left yet? So we're in this weird limbo, but we're feeling very cocoony about it. Like we're not feeling extroverted. We're not feeling like having a random get together, partly because We feel like, golly, it's hard to put my finger on the words, my voice around the words, but it's like, I'm worried that they're bored of our story. I'm worried that they're living their own lives and they're like, whatever, F you guys, you're going to France, leave us alone. And then on top of, and like, that nobody would show up. And I'm not sure I want people to show up. So while I'm dealing with all that, I'm curious, did you have those kind of milestone say goodbye parties? What did you guys do for yourselves to mark the ending? If anything,
Track 1:Um. We wore t shirts with, with a hand with a middle finger out on the back and then got on horses and rode off in the sunset.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:I feel like maybe that's what you wish you did.
Track 1:We, uh, we had no parties. My co workers threw me a going away party. outside of that, there was nothing. I didn't announce it on Facebook. I actually, we didn't actually tell anybody who was not a Who was not in our life, actively in our life. We didn't tell them we were going. Because, because we were so angry. Um, because we had lost, I mean it's always, it's a challenge to connect in big cities when people are strung out and busy.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Yes.
Track 1:And then you throw a pandemic on that and you lose your entire community or what was left of your community. And we were just at a stage where if you didn't make an effort to stay connected, if you ignored our efforts to stay connected, you don't have the right to know. And so. And I, that comes from a very uncompassionate place.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Well, but
Track 1:acknowledge that. But I think there's just, there was so much, there was so much harm done. Through neglect. And it's hard, like it's hard enough to parent in the United States. It's just, it's just hard, it's just hard. And then when you. When you don't feel like you have any community left because everybody is mistrusting, afraid, locked in their homes, you know, have, maybe they've all developed anxiety disorders and they can't maintain a friendship. I mean, that's legit, right? But, but we, but at that point, if you're just a Facebook friend, it doesn't matter where I live. And so whether I'm in Seattle or whether I'm in Spain actually makes no difference. It makes no difference. And so us leaving was on a need to know basis and only those people who would be impacted by us leaving got to know.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:it must be. I must be feeling influenced by the new culture of announcing everything that we do in our lives. What did I just is now part of our culture there 10 years ago. So there's almost a sense of owing the public information about your life in a way that has. As far as I'm aware, never been part of any culture ever until the internet became what it had.
Track 1:Yeah, you don't know anybody anything. And, and, I mean, you, you two are going through a lot right now. And when you entertain, even when you want to entertain, it requires putting on a face. It requires exerting energy. It requires taking a certain level of ownership over and responsibility over the attendees to ensure they enjoy
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:does. Seriously. There's a book that I just finished reading. It's so good. It's called the art of gathering.
Track 1:Mmm.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:it's about that is about the responsibilities a host has to their guests. I love what you just said because that Crystallized exactly what's happening for me. It's not that I don't care about these people. It's not that I don't want to celebrate. It's just that I have no gas left in the tank to smile. I'm sitting there doing yoga this morning with my husband and I end up in tears over a stuffed owl. I, I am in no condition to people right now.
Track 1:I am not at all surprised to hear you say that nine days out from leaving.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:I'm so leaky.
Track 1:Yes, yes. Drink extra water because you've got liquids coming out of all orifices. At least if you're like me, that's where I was at the very end.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:And we are, I will say we've been watching a lot of TV, but it's cathartic. I love it. I love TV. I'm watching Survivor of all things. Like I'm watching hardcore reality TV and it is, it's like a big fluffy feather blanket that I don't want to leave.
Track 1:Well, thanks to VPN services, you don't have to, and this would be a moment where we would insert our sponsor if we had
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Yes. Yes. In fact, I think my husband's is what, something like Nord VPN. Hey Nord guy, listen up. Oh, this is a good little conversation, especially because anything that starts with Ted Lasso is a good conversation.
Track 1:So true. So true.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:I don't know if they're going to have an extra season. Rumors are that there might be, but I, no, no, no, no, no. I'm, I'm lying. I think the rumors are that there's going to be more Rex zone and not more Ted lasso. Yes. They decided they told the story they needed to tell. And actually I would, before we wrap up, I want to say, I thought that the ending of Ted lasso was absolutely perfect because it wasn't a Hollywood happy ending.
Track 1:Exactly.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Really nobody ended up happy. It's bittersweet to close a chapter. I'm going to cry again. It's a bittersweet to close a chapter, to start another one. And I think that they did this remarkable job of acknowledging the dark and the light.
Track 1:Yeah. Yeah.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Thank you, Ted Lasso and the rest of them, seriously.
Track 1:Yeah, isn't like the entire cast up for Oscars, and it's, it's well earned. We need more TV like that. We need more entertainment like that because shit is dark
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Yeah. I mean, it's the hope and it's the optimism and it's the consideration for meeting other humans where they're at,
Track 1:Yes,
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:to grow. And, and allowing yourself to just be real pissed off and have a fight in an alley, but you know, the other thing that was so beautiful about that movie for me was his unapologetic American ness and
Track 1:you what,
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:I like that about us, you know, Americans. We got some shit we got to deal with, but we have a can do attitude that is unmatched. And I like that about us.
Track 1:I didn't see a lot of that. Where we where we were, by the end, but, you know, maybe, maybe again, with an additional year out of the pandemic, the Pacific Northwest is shifting a little
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:And perspective matters. Um, you know, half glass full, half glass empty. I tend to walk around with mine so full it's overflowing, which is not good either. But there is, there is light to be found. There are silver linings.
Track 1:for sure. Yep.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:That's probably enough for today. That was a lot. You got me crying. That's awesome.
Track 1:It's my job.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:Anything you want to leave our listeners with today?
Track 1:Oh, goodness. I think it's important to. To honor the process, to honor the light as well as the dark, to honor the sadness as well as the joy, to give respect to, um, to the grief and the anger as well as the excitement. I think that's super important. And, and also, you know, like you, You talk about how you almost feel like you should be announcing, you know, this is the last bit, farewell, hurrah, let's celebrate, capture it on Instagram kind of thing. Um, and also to know like, it's totally okay not to. You actually, we don't actually owe more than we can give.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:That is a powerful sentiment right there because that also requires looking at yourself with honesty about what you have available,
Track 1:Mm hmm.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:family, the people that matter the most. There might not be anything left over and that's got to be okay.
Track 1:Yeah. And the people that truly love you will be okay with that.
squadcaster-7ie1_1_02-20-2024_090230:So true. Yeah. Well, listeners, we hope we gave you something of value today. Until the next time, a bientot!
Track 1:Hasta luego.
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Bonjola. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person brave enough to move abroad. See you next time!