Bonjhola

Ep 31 - Rebecca learns to work less (but not do less) and we talk a bit about making and keeping friends.

• Rebecca West

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Where to find Rebecca:

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Welcome to Bonjola, a podcast about two women, Aimee and Rebecca, who each moved from the United States to Europe to become expats, Aimee to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure, encourage you to follow your own move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Angela, Rebecca,

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Fun. Jola, Aimee.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

how are you doing

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Well, I am coming up on six months living in Paris and I'm doing really well. And I wouldn't say that the honeymoon phase is over, but adultiness. is kind of looking square in the eye. And so it's like the honeymoon is still going, but maybe the rose colored glasses have to get taken off and put aside a little.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

there? The, the, the pink is fading. Is that what you're saying?

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Only because I have to adult. It's very easy to avoid that, I think, when you first become an expat. It's like, you're living in a

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

are. Yes. And there are infinite things that you can do to occupy your time to procrastinate the adulting.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Yeah.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

So it, it sounds like you're in that you're in that place, gosh, which feels like it took forever. And honestly, I'm not done with it myself. I'm just procrastinating also with the adulting. But you're in that place where you're learning how to be a freaking grown up in a foreign country where you don't know what, how the grownups make things happen and you can't talk to them in their grownup language because you're three years old.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Yeah, I think you kind of nailed it there. It's, there's this phase where you, you know, you have moved to another country to become an expat, but you are not one yet. You are 100 percent a tourist for the first few months, pretending. To live here. And I do think I'm going through this, like in between moment where you're becoming a proper expat. And I think it lasts all the way until you do your first round of taxes, at least. So it's like a year, year and a half cycle. And I'm, I think I'm just at the leading edge of, okay, I'm settled as a person who is allowed to live here. Now I have to get all the logistics of. living here long term in order and I quite frankly don't want to. It's not the fun part of being an expat.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

I hate it. I absolutely hate it. It hurts my brain. It makes me, you know any way in which any, any way in which you feel inadequate about yourself. I feel like this process of integration throws that up in your face to just make the process that much more fun.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

And it's, it's so exhausting. This is the thing I don't post about on Instagram or anything because you know, everybody's like, Oh, poor you living in Paris, having hardship. You know, they don't either. They don't want to hear it, or I don't feel like they want to hear it one or the other. But to the expats listening, if you're exhausted by like getting up and putting your shoes on. I'm finding that to be really normal because everything is heavy lifting. There's no autopilot in this lifestyle, at least not yet for me.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Yeah. And we had months of this. I don't think that we, you know, and I, I've talked about this before, like my son, once he started school, he didn't want to leave the house. He didn't want to see his new friends. He didn't want to hang out with them. He didn't want to go to their house. He didn't want to do any extracurricular activities after school. He was not interested in engaging with the world outside of our apartment. Until probably about six or seven months in

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

I remember bringing that up and I was, I felt worried, like, you know, is he unhappy and being at the stage where I'm at? I'm like, well, of course he didn't going out is exhausting. You only have so much battery to give. And when it's out, You're done.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

exactly and we were all in that position like we didn't really. I mean, that's why we haven't we've been here for 13 months. And we have not been South of Barcelona to travel. We haven't seen anything. We've not really traveled within Spain at all, aside from renting a car every so often to go to the coast and lay on the beach, which isn't really sightseeing or, you know, popping up into the South of France, which feels so ridiculously glamorous that, um, You know, it, it's enough, right? It's enough, but we have not explored this country at all in part because we have been so mentally overloaded consistently for so long and it really wasn't. You know, I didn't feel like I could even start considering getting our family dental care and getting established with the medical system until May, which was, you know, three months ago now, but I was like, well, it's May. There's no point in doing it now because we're going to be gone for a month in the summer. And then I come back and I'm like, well, there's no point in doing it now because everybody's out of town for the entire month of August.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Yeah. Yes.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

going to happen until maybe October because September is going to be crazy because everybody's gone in August. And, you know, at that point it'll be a year and a half without any kind of, any kind of medical care, aside from a couple of visits to urgent care. Um, Because my son has an unspoken pact of getting sick or injured if I'm not around.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

It's funny because that is one of the bureaucratic things on my list. So on my visa type and what is most people's visa types for France at three months living here, you can apply for the social health care system, which is amazing. Now, my visa required me to get. A year's worth of travel insurance or expat health insurance. That's just the

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Yeah.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Damien Damien's did not cause it's a student visa, but both of us. Uh, had that three month lead time to when we can apply for it. Now, as a student visa, everything is so much easier. It's sort of like how as a female, it's super easy to change your last name when you're getting married. The system is set up for it. Um, but outside of that system, it's hard. So he submitted his paperwork and like was done. The man's on the system is so easy and so annoying. Because I'm not, there's just, you know, a little bit more that I have to figure out. And the problem is we chose this apartment for six months. And if I had gotten on top of it at the three month mark, that would have been plenty of time for the mail system.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Ah.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

have to apply in this, in the. District or neighborhood or whatever applies at the time that I live in. Well, we're moving in less than a month now because I procrastinated and I don't know how to get mail at the new place. We've talked about mail so many times on this podcast. I recently again, checked to see if there was like a post office box system. There isn't, there might be like a mailboxes, et cetera, system, because I know that they'll give you an address for like, Registering a business, but most of the things I found in that regard are actually virtual systems where they'll scan your mail and stuff and send it to you. And I want to be able to physically get my mail in my hands. So, you know, none of these things are big deals, but every step is work and hard. And then of course you put the language on top of that, you know, so luckily. And maybe because of that year long health insurance they made me get, I have health insurance, but that might have been why I procrastinated. So here I am, feeling very frustrated with myself. Myself more than the system. Which is, by the way, a really common feeling for me as an expat. I'm just feeling frustrated with myself. For lots of reasons,

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Yeah. I relate to that too. Yep.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

um, luckily I'm in good health, right? So knock on wood,

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

And honestly, if you were not in good health, you probably would not have procrastinated.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

this is a good point. We always make the highest priority thing in our life. The highest priority, no matter what our words are saying, are actual priorities.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Exactly. Exactly. On that vein, I was, um, editing a flashback episode about your work habits. And I think at that point you were probably about a month or two in and just still working like 60 and 70 hour weeks. And you had talked about how you were wanting to try to change that. And had sort of had a perhaps naive expectation that kind of being in the environment of France would have automatically led to a down regulation of workaholic tendencies, but you weren't quite there yet. And I'm kind of wondering, like, I want to circle back around, because that was, you know, at this point now, several months ago, how is that process coming along for you? Are you still wanting to try? Are you trying? Are you not wanting to try now? How many hours did you work this week?

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

I'm going to have to go with kind of an all the above. Um, I'm definitely working less and that is both because I have less that I need to do now. Um, and by choice. So it's like partly things are just a little slower, which allows me the freedom to work a little bit less and I'm intentionally working less. So it's definitely going the right direction. hand in hand with that Is Is really the mental work of trusting that I can work less. Like I did a lot of work saving up enough money that I can take a two year sabbatical and be okay.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

wow.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

That in and of itself didn't put the brakes on because. While the reality allows me to not work, my brain wasn't, and that's partly because I feel like a stupid, lazy lump if I'm not economically producing. Um, another part of it is that Damien's school schedule, and, and I don't think we realize this would be true, but like a lot of school schedules, it, Isn't consistent from day to day, and it's not consistent from quarter to quarter. So some days he starts class at 7 a. m. And other days it doesn't not till 11 or 2 p. m. So it's also been a little bit of work of how do I find routine and consistency when my partner? Doesn't really have a routine. How do I both prioritize our time together when he's not occupied, but how do I also prioritize my own work schedule and give myself the routine that I crave without it, I go crazy. So it's a really complicated answer in that. Yeah, I'm working about. 30 to 40 hours a week now, which is

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Wow.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

bananas little for me.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

It is. I feel like I want the, the two things, two things come to mind. My first thought was, Oh my God, you must be crawling out of your skin. And then the second thought was, my God, Rebecca, are you okay? Like, are you, are you okay? Hmm.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Well, what has happened? This is the beautiful part of it. Back when I started my company 20, almost 20 years ago now, I remember how much free time I had. So when I, when I taught ballroom dance, I was working in the evenings. So I'd start my day around 10 to get to the studio and I wouldn't get home until 10 or midnight. Uh, between all the things, breaks and commutes and stuff. So when I first started my business, I had all this free time and I could like walk to the grocery store and it was really, it felt so healthy. Like I wasn't just trapped inside all the time and I wasn't trapped in an office all the time. And I told my mom, That I really hoped this would be stay true as being part of being an entrepreneur. And she kind of laughed a little and she's like, well, we'll see. Cause we all know how busy life can get. And it did not stay that way. It's not something that I kept as a, as a full time entrepreneur. So I'm back to it. And because it's something I missed really what's filling all that time. Is walking places, walking with with Damien to school, which takes 45 minutes. And then walking back on Saturday, I was five and a half miles away from home and I was like, well that'll take me two and a half hours to walk and I have the time and I love to walk. So that's really what's been filling the time. We also started dance lessons again,

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Nice.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

so no, I'm not crawling outta my skin. I'm also not resting which maybe I should be. But I am filling the time with things that make me extremely happy.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

That's amazing. That's beautiful. I'm super happy for you. And I'm also really pleased to hear that you're not crawling out of your skin, or it sounds like you're not even shitting all over yourself.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

No, because because I'm not resting. If I was resting, then I'd be judgy all over about myself.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

right. So, so I guess, so that would mean that like in the sort of deep subconscious of Rebecca, It isn't exclusively about being a money making productive machine, but, but certainly, you know, sitting, sitting on the couch is not something that you get to do whenever you want. It's something that you earn based upon the productivity of the day. Would you say that's true?

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Yeah. And it's, It's, um, it's not like I owe it to anybody because the productivity from an economic point of view is like something I owe society. That's my Puritan up. But the, the moving and doing to me, that's more of my, it's almost like my life philosophy. Life is so short that I don't want to miss out. And so being on the move and tasting things and seeing things and going to shows, it might It might make my life end sooner, but my life will have been full of richness and texture and tasting. So the problem with it is I go very pendulum, you know, so Sunday we had our first tango lesson. It was two hours of standing on high heels, which I hadn't done in 10 years. And you know, I'm all in, I'm, I'm adrenaline. I don't need breaks. I don't need water. I went full two hours. And then I hit a wall and I was like, Hey, our lesson is now done because the teacher was so cute. She was going to give us a few more extra minutes. And I'm like, no, I, I'm full, like I'm tapped out. Um, and then we went and had brunch and I can't remember. We had a great Sunday. I mean, it was top shelf, rose colored glasses, Parisian living the dream Barbie, but to the point where the next day. Monday, I was miserable because I had overextended my energy. So I guess this is the next step is, okay, live and, and consume and taste and see and experience, but maybe leave enough in the battery that your husband isn't picking you off the floor the next day. So

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

In your defense, in your defense, you were in heels and he gets to stand on his feet all day. I'm sure in those super comfortable shoes that chefs get to wear because they have to stand on their feet all day. So I don't know that that's a fair comparison,

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

is a hundred percent true. He was actually sweet. Cause he, he, we bought our dance shoes and he wears, he wore his for the lesson, which do have a little heel for the guys too, and he also could feel that in his calves and quads. And so he was, he did have a lot of compassion for me being in my. My skinny shoes and the guys, when they're dancing, they can stand on all parts of their feet, depending on what they're leading as a female. She, I have to stay on the ball of my foot, even when I'm in a neutral position. So it's a incredibly active dance, even though it's very small movements in a lot of ways.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

The movements, which are the most tight and controlled often require the most work.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

It's so true. And it's funny. Um, I, you know, we have to keep a dance frame and so our arms have to be up relaxed, but firm like, Oh my gosh, it's so hard. And I did it and it was great. And then the next day I discovered I have a tiny, like one centimeter wide by four inch muscle right under my armpits near my back that can hurt really badly. I didn't even know there was a muscle there. Turns out there is. Don't

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Yes. Yes. The intercostals, I believe, uh, although serratus anterior also comes to mind. And I don't know if I'm remembering my anatomy well enough or not.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

me,

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Yeah. You can also make those sore by doing loads and loads of pushups.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

which I cannot do cause my wrists are not a happy bendy thing. So dance, I got, but I'm so excited. The reason we're doing tango, we love it, but you know, they do tango on the Seine river. There's these spontaneous seeming dance parties, mostly swing salsa and tango on the river. And one of the big dreams that I had was coming here and joining those dance Events and they, um, they're not happening right now because everybody goes on vacation in August, so

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Well, the Olympics are going on right now. So I'm sure there's so many there, the crowds are huge and the ability to pull that off right now would probably be somewhat compromised.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

maybe it, you know, I have got to give. Paris credit, it really is so organized and tidy the areas where the events are being held are cordoned off. But that's it. So, no, I think it's more that the French just go on vacation in the August and that's simply not where you host an event if you want people to show up.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

So I'm curious, you know, you're in this lovely state of flow right now. And even though you're kind of imbalanced in how you're trying to balance, there's more balance than there was. I know just the nature of life that, you know, there are ebbs and the flows, right? So at some point in time, the work schedule's going to, you'll have an opportunity to work more hours. Do you imagine you'll do something differently when that opportunity shows up? Or do you have ideas in place to kind of counter the That impulse to keep you in this better state of balancing working and living.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

that's a really good question because, um, in large part, I have a bunch of social and travel that's about to happen. Um, one of the things about living in Paris, it turns out is that lots of people come to Paris and I've been telling people. You know, if you're here, let me know coffee's a yes. And I mean that people are taking me up on it. And so come September and October, um, I'm going to London to see my mom. Um, and then there are no fewer than seven people within that month and a half time period that are all coming for a visit. And there's a big design event. So, and then Damien, when he does get a school break, he really wants to get away. So we're going to be going to Normandy for a couple of nights. Coming up soon. I know you want to stay up to Amsterdam. Christmas will be here before we know it. We're talking about going over to Budapest. And so I think the next challenge isn't the consistency of work. I think if I had a regular work routine, 35 to 40 hours a week, Would feel really comfortable. And I'm starting to put in boundaries around when I don't work. And those are feeling really good. The challenge is going to be when I want to take these big chunks of time off, and I've already learned no working on a travel day, because you cannot trust the wifi. Um, I don't know how I'm going to handle that because it's also one of my big priorities, which is, I mean, I can go over to London for 150 bucks round trip.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

It's amazing. Isn't it?

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Yeah. So I don't want this two years of Europe to pass where I don't take up this opportunity to do all of this local travel, but how will I balance that with my desire to build the business to where I want it to be within five years?

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

That's right. I had totally forgotten that you guys are there on a two year time.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Yeah. Cause you guys are here for the long haul. You don't really have an end date and we don't have an end date. We just don't know what's going to happen in two years. We want to stay in, but Damien will be getting an internship at the end of the schooling period that could be in Paris. Or it literally can be, it's allowed to be anywhere in the world. So that depends on what connections he makes and where he wants to take this adventure. You know, it's, it's really uncomfortable living with this much uncertainty. I've never had such a short window or tunnel, or I don't know how you want to say it of, I mean, none of us ever know what the future is going to hold, but you and I have talked about before, how being an expat kind of pulls away, Any pretense we had about knowing the future. I am hyper aware of, I have no clue what's going to happen. Not in two years. Now it's a year and a half. The first six months are already over.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Yeah. It's crazy. Isn't it?

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Yeah.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Like you're literally just going to get to the point where you have figured out how to be an adult in France And then you may leave and have to do it all over again, somewhere else. Thank goodness you had a military upbringing to prepare you for that in some regard.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

that is absolutely true. And I have to say that part is really nice. The coming here and getting to reinvent myself. I hadn't done that in nearly, if not all the way, 30 years. And that had been, yeah, it had been actually longer than 30 years. And for the first 15 years of my life, we had regularly moved so I could regularly Change my habits, change my change, how I was going to be perceived by people because, you know, we become who we are through a lot of choices. We don't even know we're making, we develop our friend groups by chance as much as by choice. And once that happens, it can be really hard to disentangle ourselves from those choices and those habits. So moving is this wonderful opportunity to wipe the slate clean and give yourself a chance to build better habits and healthier friendships. And to, you know, wash away some of the things that you wish you'd never said. And. I do like that. It's nice having that back. And so knowing that I'll get that chance again in a few years, it does take some of the pressure off of me. Like I can be a little bit more bold and a little bit more brave and even just wear stupid shit. And, and like, nobody's going to know in a few years and I can try again. There's a freedom to that. That is really beautiful.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Yeah. Yeah, I can totally imagine that being the case.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Yeah. My brothers didn't. Embrace it the same way I did. Um, you know, personality types, different ages, different places we were living, different friend groups. There's all kinds of things that go into if a third country kid is going to thrive or not thrive. So I'm not saying it's a fit for everybody, but I'm really grateful. I was raised the way I was raised.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Well, on that note, that kind of feels like a natural place to sort of close the episode.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

I mean, it does. Honestly, I had, a question because

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Oh, yeah.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

how, um, your son was kind of cocooning and it sounded like you were saying he has since stopped cocooning. So with your third country kid, what have you seen happen over the 13 months that you've been there? He's what age? so much. Remind our listeners.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Uh, he is now, uh, 10 and three quarters. So if I said anything less than that, he would make sure to correct me. He is not 10 and a half. So he is definitely, it is interesting because our trip back to the States disrupted this a little bit. He has. He's definitely had, you know, interest in his friends, staying connected with the friends that he's made here in Spain. He's made two good friends. One of them, they're very, very tight. They are so wonderful together. Just so deeply connected on a, just their hearts, right? Or like super connected. They're good buddies. And

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

is this person an English, Catalan, or Spanish speaker? Or other.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

is he is half American, half Catalan.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Okay.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

So, um, you know, so he's fluent in English. He understands the United States. He has that, you know, uh, an awareness of the U S and has been there multiple times, knows it well, but he also is, you know, kind of rooted here in Catalonia. And. And has, you know, cut one heritage and cuddle on grandparents, right? So he straddles both worlds and I think that gives him this perspective. And my son's other good friend is, is similar. He's half Iranian and half American. So they both have this perspective of. that, you know, a native to the area wouldn't have. Um,

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Hmm.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

definitely like made the rest of the school, made the school year good for him, allowed him to feel integrated in the classroom and have friends in the classroom. And. When I hear him talk, it sounds like beyond those two that he speaks about most of the time. And one of them, you know, he wants to go to his house. He wants to see him during summer. He wants to, you know, socialize outside of school a lot. The others, it sounds like he has three or four other people in the classroom that he's connecting with. So, you know, we, when we ended the school year, It felt good, the last day of school, you know, the festival towards the end of school to commemorate, sort of the closing of the school year. He was running around on campus with his friends. He didn't want to leave. It was 11 o'clock at night, I mean, just like very much in his element, like we had experienced in the States. And, you know, that said, A couple of months before we went back home to the States, he started craving American food, wanting to see his friends, was super duper looking forward to being back Stateside, and then had that experience that we all have when we go back to Seattle of everybody making an effort to take the time to see you. So he had a huge influx of socializing from his Seattle friend group. That he never had when we lived there. And these are people he's known since he was three, four or five years old. Right. So at this point, they're essentially lifelong friends. And that gave him, um, that gave him, I think in some ways it accentuated the homesickness that he's been experiencing. And it was, he did not want to come back to Spain. He wasn't ready to come back to Spain. He wanted to stay there. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, what, one of the things that I did was. As soon as we landed, I was making plans for him to see his friends here in Spain so he could remember it's not just the U. S. that's good. It's also good here, right? There's, and he has this opportunity to, foster and maintain friendships on two different continents. And we didn't have that as children because all we could do is write a freaking letter and wait a month or two or three for it to arrive, right? So, couldn't afford phone calls. We didn't have video conferencing. Like, none of that existed. It's just so much easier now for people to stay connected. Um, and, and yet it's so easy for us not to, which is so weird to me. It's so weird.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

I was thinking about that. Cause one of the people that's coming here to Paris, she and she lives in Oregon and she and I have been, but she came up to Seattle regularly because her son lived up there and we've been trying to see each other for years. So Seattle to Portland was at a four hour drive, never made it happen. And now she's coming to Paris and we'll finally get to see each other. It's like, but I mean, there is something. Special about the expat experience. People think you're super cool and they will seek you out. And then going back home when you don't normally live there again, they'll make a special effort. It is a different experience that it's sort of like taking concentrated doses of friendship instead of daily, small doses of friendship. And it's something I really prefer because I feel like you dive deeper. Somehow, like it, it puts everything to sharp relief. Like this time matters. Whereas when. You can take each other for granted on a daily basis. You do exactly that

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Yeah, I don't, I don't share that perspective. I understand that perspective and actually it's very consistent with your behavior. So that makes total sense to me that that's how you would perceive things. But I don't feel that way at all. I feel like if I haven't seen somebody in a long time, there's so much I've missed out on. Um, and that you can't, you can't catch up in enough, in an afternoon, in a tea, because if I haven't seen someone in two years, how much can we cover in two or three hours of coffee or cocktails? Right? It's just like, it's hardly anything. And I don't, um, it's felt impossibly hard in the United States, but I really appreciate the intimacy that is fostered when you have consistent communication with somebody, when you know, not just the big dramatic things that are happening in their life, but the little things, the things that we forget to mention when we haven't seen each other for even two months, let alone two years.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

completely agree with you. And what I'm referring to a little bit more are the in between friendships. So I think there's the friendships where we have weekly or daily actual interaction, which is why I like having coworkers because you kind of have friendships that. Are going to grow, whether you almost like it or not, you know,

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Right? Right.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

friends. Um, but most of the relationships I had in Seattle, I would say they're the kind where you could have had daily or weekly interaction, but none of us did. So they were, they didn't have either the minute intimacy. Or the, Oh my gosh, I haven't seen you in ages. And it feels so amazing to catch up. Like those are the two bookends. And I felt like almost all the relationships I had were in this middle generic gray zone where we didn't have the excitement or the intimacy. And so it just felt really bland. A lot of those relationships.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

It reminds me of the superficial California relationships

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

Mm hmm.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

I mean, at least in California, nobody, uh, that's a judgy thing to think. Nobody was willing to, no one, no one was really very willing to go deep in most situations. Um, I did, you know, it's funny cause I say that, but I do have some friendships that went very, very deep While I was there and the ones that I've maintained continued to have that level of depth that, you know, that started, that started while I lived there, but by and large, California and the people, most of the people that I met in California never seemed to want to go beyond sort of the superficial thing. And maybe, I mean, maybe that's why I feel. felt so isolated and ostracized in Seattle, particularly during the pandemic when there was so many important things that I felt we really needed to be talking about that nobody wanted to face. Um, and it was so deeply isolating and, um, ostracizing in a way because I, It was, yeah, it was just, it was just, um, nothing I ever want to experience again, but I have a big mouth and an opinion that I can't for the life of me. Hide. So one of the things that came out of the pandemic were some very, very high quality. deep friendships that were fostered during that time. Um, and you know, those are the people who are still in my life, right? Everybody else is just a Facebook friend and that seems to be what they prefer anyway. So,

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

And I think it's important to bring up because I know that on the forums, the expat forums here in Paris, a lot of people really do feel very lonely. You know, I'm in a really fortunate position in one regard because I have a husband who is my best friend. You know, he really takes care of a lot of my social needs and not everybody has that. The second thing I think is that I have to, and I assume this is true of everybody, I need to look for friends. who kind of run at the same pace that I do because I want to have daily friendships all day, but I'm always going to this show or that dance lesson or this thing or whatever. And so I do need to make sure that the friends I choose to have Aren't going to be the kind who will feel neglected if I only see them once every couple of months. It's not personal. It's a lifestyle choice. It's part of why I really like being friends with entrepreneurs and expats because they're the kind of people who run themselves ragged. Like I do a lot of times. And that gives us that same foundation and comments that when we do see each other, we're like, all right, tell me everything because we haven't had the chance to catch up.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Yeah. And I, I respect business and I know, I know for so many of my American friends, it's the busyness that prevents them from fostering friendships, but it really is just as simple as, We always have done with our friendship is just consistently scheduling something, whether it's two months out or six months out. And having that shared understanding that unless we are both willing to commit to a scheduled time and honor that commitment to each other as a commitment to our friendship, that there isn't going to be anything there. There won't be anything. And, you know, I think the reality is, is that so many of us are so busy and pulled so thin. That like our health, we don't prioritize our community and what you don't prioritize that's important, but not urgent withers on the vine

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

And

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

you lose it

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

yeah, and the busyness is the thing we should really always be examining because it, the question isn't, are you busy? Busy's great. We have one life to live. It's short, but

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

you busy. If you want to be busy,

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

what are you staying busy with? And is that leading to a life that you'll be glad you lived? Because some of us. Some of us don't need very much social. Some of us are very happy being at home alone and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you're always chasing some employer's dream or something like that, rather than your own dreams, that's where I think you can have sacrificed both friendships. And your own happiness and health and all those things. So I have no problem with busy people. I prefer busy people, but we should each of us be asking what we're being busy with, which goes back to the beginning of this conversation where you said, are you working less? Cause you wanted to try to, and I'm no less busy, but now I am busy with more things that I'm glad to be busy with when I reflect upon the quality of my life.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

that's awesome.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

That feels like a good place to wrap it up.

aimee_1_08-06-2024_043716:

Absolutely. Well, on that note, I would like to say to our listeners, hasta pronto.

rebecca_1_08-06-2024_133715:

I'll be on though.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Bonjola. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person brave enough to move abroad. See you next time!