Bonjhola

Ep 34 - FLASHBACK EPISODE - Aimee Gets a Spanish Tutor, and Here's Why

• Rebecca West

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Welcome to Bonjola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each moved from the United States to Europe to become expats, Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure, encourage you to follow your own move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

Bonjola, Amy.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Buongiorno, Rebecca.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

I hear that you have a new solution for your language challenges. Wanna tell us about that?

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

My Spanish woes. Well, firstly, I want to say that I, I took a practice exam last week and, um, did not fail, which I'm super excited about. I got a 70%, which is better than I think I've gotten since we started having our papers and things graded. So that feels, that feels reassuring, but I, you know, after, after class last week, because I felt so disillusioned at, how I felt while taking that exam and the lack of language that was coming to me, I reached out, you know, exploring for tutors, Spanish tutors, because I'm like, there is something about this situation that is not working. I am not progressing like I expected to. I, um, and after, you know, what, nine months there, this should not, there's, you know, this isn't this, something is not right. And your point that you had spoken to me about. Um, you know, maybe the problems, the teacher, maybe the problems, the class, and I'm still not convinced that's the case, I also don't have an alternative explanation other than early onset dementia, which. is a little extreme and probably just the hypochondriac that lives inside my head talking. So,

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

given that you're not even yet 50, I think that's unlikely.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

hence the early onset part of that equation. And just because we don't diagnose dementia and Alzheimer's until there is remarkable, notable, significant changes in memory doesn't mean that these things do not start much earlier and leave much subtler clues that nobody is looking

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

there's two other things that I think could be contributing factors, too. One, no idea, but you recently said, you know, you and I have never talked about paramenopause, which we haven't, so now we are. That's a thing women go through. And is very ununderstood and then,, and I wouldn't say like it's related to dementia, but I would absolutely suspect it would affect our memory retention and recall and then also. I don't know if you know this, but you're doing a big thing. You moved to Spain and you're trying to raise a child while running a business, you know, no big deal.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

That is a irrelevant, tiny detail of my life that plays No, part in my ability to be a

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

this is the thing. So, you know, you know that I have been running myself absolutely ragged for the last three weeks and I noticed a absolute decline in mental acuity this last week. My words weren't coming out right. My decisions were delayed. It wasn't a physical fatigue. But the mental fatigue was real. So I think that it could be any and all of those things. I just think it's very unlikely early onset dementia. But

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

I concur. It is unlikely that it is early onset dementia. Um, There is this voice in my head right now going, but your grandmother just died of Alzheimer's and these things do start young and everything was fine. And then she started misplacing her keys all the time And she was doing that in her fifties. So you can't say that it isn't that, but I also can't, you know, that that's not, that's neither here nor there. And there's nothing that I can actively do to prevent that, that I'm not, Pretty much already doing with how I live my life. So that's not really an actionable, um, rabbit hole to

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

speaking of action, you did take some action, which is,

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Yes. So I reached out and I actually just had a consult with the guy today. Um, before, before we met and I super duper like this dude, he's, he's an Argentinian living in Barcelona. And he's like, this will make you laugh, he's like, your expectations for your Spanish are very demanding. You are very demanding of yourself. First, and he's like, we need to, we need to make the process enjoyable. Otherwise, because this is a long process, this is many, many years. It has to be enjoyable. Otherwise you will be frustrated. It will be difficult and it will be, there is no reason to suffer

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

that's good advice. Do

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

And, uh, and, and he's like, to understand Spanish, to be fluent in Spanish, you can't do this, With exams and conjugation tables, you have to learn it in your heart. You have to have it be instinct because if you have to think about what you're going to say, it takes too long, right? So it has to come from within. And so, you know, he's like, we're going, we're going to work on creating goals and habits of integrating Spanish into your life because I don't have hardly any opportunities outside of my day to day activities. Which are wrote and repeated and not new exposure. Right. And my Spanish class, which I'm, you know, feeling miserable about. So he's, is, and he's, he's like, he also says, I think for you with your goals to speak with your family, You don't need to worry about vosotros in the Spain Spanish, because this is for your family. you are Latin American. 80 percent of the world uses the Spanish anyway. Nobody outside of Spain uses vosotros. So I think for you, it's better. It's easier and it's better. And I'm like, huh, but I'm going to be living in Spain and, uh, they do use vosotros here, so I should know it. He's like, but they'll understand you anyway. Don't worry about it.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

they take it as personally as apparently the French can to not use the formal version? Of

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

No, because they understand that all it means is like, Oh, you're not from Spain. You're from Latin America. You're from somewhere else because you're not, you're not speaking Castellano. You're speaking Espanol. Right. And you know, Spain did a very good job at spreading their language across the world and they are the only ones that have kept the, the vote. Like that does not, it's not a thing in the Americas. The formal you they just dropped. We just dropped that. So, um, and all of this Spanish that I learned when I was younger was that Latin American form because yeah, it was in the United States. Right? So it's, uh, it's not anything that they take as. As an insult, if they are inclined to view their former subjects as less than, you know, if there's racism

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

kind of a set. That's a kind of a different thing. Yeah.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

it's a different thing. And they might hear you speak Latin American Spanish and put you in that category, Of uneducated Brown person who is now in Spain. But, um, that's not about you using the language. That's about your language being your identifier from where you're from and the judgment on that.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

So this guy, he's in Barcelona. So this would be by Zoom, I assume.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Yeah. I'd be by zoom and, and his whole idea is like, let's create habits. Let's create goals. He says, you know, he asked me what I did for a living and stuff like that. And he's like. The goals you make for your Spanish are like somebody coming to you, weighing 125 kilograms and saying, I want to run a marathon.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

You're like, Oh yeah.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

I'm like, I understand this. I understand this, Arnon. You are speaking my language.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

It is funny. You know, I used to do that when I taught ballroom dance, I would constantly trying to use analogies from people's lives and frequently get them wrong, but hilariously. So it still worked because it was funny, but I hadn't really thought about doing that for myself and thinking like, Rebecca, you're asking yourself to remodel your house in a week. Like, right, with my own language, expectations, like, I would never,

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Wait.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

I know better. I know better than that. But somehow we think that it'll magic in these other industries.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

that's actually exactly what he said. He's like, you think you will magically know this language? And I'm like, well, why can't I be magical? I was like, why not? Why can't I be magical? What's wrong with that?

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

Yes.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

It doesn't work like this. So I love his, I love his approach to this because it's so radically different than how I've ever done it. And. You know, which is no longer working well for me, and it has this element of being mindful of joy and appreciation rather than measuring my ability to speak to my family on my grades.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

actually beautiful because that's so much more connected to life and why we did this thing we're doing.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Yeah. Yeah. So I think it'll be really good for me and it will also be nice because I was, you know, I have spent 20 years working with people on taking their goals and breaking them down into realistic chunks and things that are sustainable and joyful and successful. And when, you know, as he's saying this, I'm like, Oh yes, of course this, this makes so much sense to me. Of course it would be like this. And then I'm thinking, well, how do you even do that with language? And the tumbleweeds start rolling around and like, there's no answer for me. Like I have no idea how to do this in this application. And he's like. This is my job. This is my goal. This is my, my, this is why I am here to do this for you, to help you with this. So, I was like,

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

I love that.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

This, this will be good.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

It's, I love that too, because we, especially as we get decades into our own industries, we forget how out of reach the fundamentals are. It's easy to forget that sometimes. With the coaching with my interior designers, it's They always undervalue their services and I used to do it too because we're like, I'm just picking a color, you know, I'm just choosing a couch, I'm just putting together a cabinet design layout and people will spend years paralyzed, unable to just choose a color. What we're close to seems easy and therefore not valuable and not remarkable. And that's also an argument for when you're stuck, like you were, go find a professional because they probably have some tools that we could use. Truly.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Right. They probably know how to figure this out, how to, how to get you out of the, the paper bag you've got yourself stuck in better than you do if you've been spinning around in circles for a while. Yeah.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

I'm excited. So you haven't chosen him yet, but you'll make a decision soon?

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

I actually did, I actually did purchase a five session package to start and we'll be meeting once a week. So I, I would like to do it twice a week, but I'm like, you know, I've got this Spanish exam coming up. I'm still taking these Spanish classes in a month. We will be going back to the States. There's a lot of work I need to wrap up so I don't have to worry about recording podcast episodes and things like this while I'm in the States. So I opted for once a week for now, and then we may continue while I'm stateside. If the time difference works and I can, you know, consistently show up to class, but, um,

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

I don't know if you know, but I actually did continue working with my French tutor after we got here. So I'd found her on an app called italki and, um, we, when I was back in the States, I just didn't want to lose that three months of language intensive that we'd done. I was like, I don't want to waste that money by losing all those skills. I didn't expect to grow my skills, but I met with her twice a week and I absolutely grew my skills. And then. I kind of kept her as almost a security blanket when I first got here, but because I'm so isolated working all day talking in English, it's turned out to be one of the few times I get to really use my French during the week. And what's cool about doing it once you live somewhere is you have weird interactions and then you can go, okay, I want to note that down and ask my tutor about it. And so you get this light. Real time learning where you can then go back and use what you're learning in a way that you can't do when you're on or when you're in the States and you're not surrounded by the language. So I didn't think I would keep going with her, but I, I really find it very, very valuable and I hope you find the same thing.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Me too.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

So, are they hour long, half hour long?

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

A lot. 55 minutes.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

And does he, does he, I mean, you haven't had one yet. I don't know if he's like, does he play games? Does he give you quizzes? Does he give you homework?

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

I don't know. I don't know. I think what we're really going to do is establish habits that I can do daily to have that, you know, to have consistency, um, and something that's measurable that will lead to a goal. That is something less. Extreme than reading classic Spanish literature and understanding every word that I'm reading. Just kind of the metric that I'm like, what, what, he's like, what are your goals? And I'm like, well, I want to be fluent and speak to my family. And I have these really deeper relationships with my family. And I want to be able to work in Spanish and, you know, offer my services in Spanish. And I want to read Gabriel Garcia Marquez and under in the original language and know exactly what's going on. Like.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

That's all. Although ironically,

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

You're talking to me at 125 kilograms asking to run a marathon.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

it is funny. They bring up the literature. Cause I was, I don't know what I was reading the other day, but they actually, somebody recommended That you read, um, Camus, Albert Camus. Well, I read him in, must've been in college and I get them really mixed up with Sartre. So I don't, I remember Sartre being really dark, but they said it's really big ideas in really simple French. So I actually think I might find, I might go to the bookstore and see if I agree with that analysis.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

That's a brilliant idea. That is a brilliant idea. Now, Camus goes dark, Camus, and I don't remember what book it is, but I think it's the most famous one that actually caused me to drop a philosophy class In college because it was too dark for me to deal with at that point in

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

I mean, it always depends on where we're at in our life and what we're already dealing with. Yeah. I will say that our trip to Avignon actually inspired me because the few, so here in Paris, again, you can go through your entire day and not speak a word of French, even being out and about because everybody speaks English. And because we're in a city, they're all kind of in a hurry, so they don't necessarily want to be patient with you. When we were in Avignon, everything was a little bit of a slower pace of life, and nobody spoke English. The English they did was basically as good as my French, which made me feel awesome. But even in those couple of days, I could feel the gears turning easier, like, like the brain gears were getting lubed up. So I have set myself a new challenge, um, starting next week to once a day when I'm taking a walk, try and find Like a BS errand that I could do, like, I don't need to go buy flowers, but I'm going to go buy flowers. I don't need toilet paper yet, but try to do it at places that will require me to ask questions. And I did start yesterday. I don't know if we've talked about it, but Pepto Bismol and Ben Gay are, or Icy Hot are 2 things we really want to find. And I haven't had the courage to go ask the questions. It turns out that Pepto Bismol is not sold in France, so anybody moving here who loves that particular drug as much as I do, bring a bottle. Apparently there was some health scare in the 1970s, and

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

bring two bottles. Bring two bottles and when you get to France, mail the second

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

yeah, there you go. That's the real answer. And if my family's listening and you're coming for a visit, you know what to stick in your bag. Um,

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

And gain Pepto

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

but it was fun. I finally felt like I had the emotional capacity to go ask these questions and be patient with myself. And the pharmacist was very patient with me and I think it's a, it really goes back to your tutor and what we're asking of ourselves. I'm asking myself to do too much at once and one errand, one interaction using actual French every day is enough. Just got to do it.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

That's 365. additional acquisitions, right? Additional exposures, additional learning that you otherwise may

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

But it is hard. I do remember on Memorial Day when they had the, um, I don't remember the, oh, the Lily of the Valley flowers that they sell in little bouquets all over the sidewalks and streets on, not Memorial Day, May Day. And I did, I screwed up my courage and I walked up to one of the vendors and I asked, you know, why are you selling these flowers today? And I was proud of myself for doing it, and I got the gist of what she was saying. But it's sort of like at this point, my French is at the point where I'm like, I can put something out, you can give something back to me. I will get about 40 percent of what you said, and that will be the end of our conversation. That's just, that's where I'm at right now.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Yeah.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

How much do you

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Don't ask me. It

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

do you understand when people talk to you?

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

depends on how fast they're talking to me and Spaniards can talk outrageously fast. I thought Mexicans were bad. No, no, no. That'll be really nice actually going back to see family and enjoying how slow they talk in comparison. I would say, you know, I think most of, gosh, it's, I honestly am really struggling to answer that question because I, I'm not sure what's the, the Catalan and what's the Spanish, um, because I, I do get the gist from Catalan if someone is responding to me in Catalan and I'll talk to them in Spanish. Um, but I think I, I would say I probably, I probably understand about 60%. Of what's going on, sometimes a little more again, if they talk slowly and where I really struggle is, is keeping that conversation going and knowing what to say in response. And there is a part of me that always feels like I'm being tested and I'm inherently going to mess it up and that's not okay. And I'm not sure how to turn off that part of my brain.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

I have no advice for you because I don't know how either. It is funny that you're talking at the pace of speaking though because there's this guy. An Instagram that I follow and he's, he speaks Creole French. I think he lives in Louisiana and I love it, but I hadn't thought about the fact that it's not just that he has a Southern accent, so it totally sounds like home to me, but because it's the South, he speaks very slowly. Probably overpronouncing, uh, overpronounces his vowels, so I hadn't thought about it, but yeah, it's, it's a pleasure to listen to him speak.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

I bet.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

I hadn't thought about the Mexican Spanish being slower than Spain Spanish, but yeah, makes sense.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

with Creole French, do they have enough of their own words that they've thrown in over the years that makes it As different from French French as, say, the Queen's English versus

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

My impression is yes, but I can't say that specifically. But the reason I feel that it's definitely yes, is Um, it has nothing to do with that. It was, I follow this guy, he's a marketing guy and he has a French marketing newsletter and I love it. Cause it has a very American like drive, driven vibe. Well, come to find out. Cause I, he, he hosted an event online and I shared it with a couple of my French colleagues. I was like, Hey, you might be interested in this. Um, and then one of the gals goes, Oh, I just love. a Canadian accent. And I went, Oh, okay. A, it wasn't American. It was a North American vibe that I was getting. That makes sense. And they immediately knew it based on the accent, just like we would, if it was a British accent in English. And I had no clue, zero clue,

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Yeah. Yeah. Canadian French is different than French French. I did learn that being up in Canada, that it is, it is considered a different kind of French in the same way that British English is

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

which is why I feel a hundred percent confident saying that the Creole must be the same or even more distinct. Yeah,

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Right.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

I know. I guess one of my goals, I hadn't really thought about it, but now one of my goals is to be able to identify a French Canadian accent and be like, oh, I hear it. Like, I now know that you are speaking French, but it's not France French. That's a ways off. That's a very long ways off.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

It is. I mean, I guess it would depend on how many French Canadians you hung out with while you were living in France. And you know, I think you could get, it would take some sleuthing and some work, but I think you could, you could figure that out just as, you know, as an American, the more foreigners you meet,, when you hear an Australian, you hear an Irish person and you hear someone from South Africa, you start to pick up some of the differences. And then you can be like, ah, you are absolutely not British. You are very clearly Australian. But 20 years ago, I didn't, they all sounded British to me. Cause that was all I knew. You're not American. You must be, and you're not saying a, so you must be

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

imagine what it must be like, forget all of those just within the States, we have our dramatic dialects. I mean, I can pick up a, a Minnesotan distinct from the Kentucky and the distinct from a, you know, a West coaster and obviously a New Yorker or anything up from the Rhode Island, the areas, I mean, we are an entire continent of. States that might as well be countries.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

For sure. Yes. And it is, it is only through a lot of hard work and blood that we are not a bunch of different countries. And that's not to say we won't be a bunch of different countries in a hundred years.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

Well, what advice would you give our listeners who might be struggling with their language skills and worrying about it more than they should?

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

I think it's worth, you know, it is worth checking out your options. If the method that you are doing is not working for you, look elsewhere. I think the, the thing that still trips me up is that I felt that this method had worked, I mean, had worked for me before. I have taken language classes before in the classroom. I have taken exams. I've always done well. I've always gotten good marks, so I don't, I don't know, I don't know why it's different here, but it's different here. And rather than proceeding more slowly than I want to, if there's a way I can proceed more rapidly, I would like to take advantage of that. Rather than being perpetually frustrated and feeling like I am just not getting it, but not being able to discern why so I can fix it, isn't working well for me. So I need to find something else. And, you know, the nice thing about a tutor is that you can try them on for a month. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And in that, not all, not all teachers teach the same way. Not all education. And, you know, this, this goes beyond just language learning classes. But if you find a doctor you don't like, don't stay with that doctor, right? There is not one tutor. Way to do a thing. There are multiple ways to achieve a goal. And if the way that you've been trying is not working for you, it means like you have the option to try

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

And just because it worked before, one way, doesn't have any bearing on whether or not it'll work now. Allow yourself to change too, I guess is something I'm hearing.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

absolutely. Yeah. And that's, I mean, yes, absolutely. Because we do change over time. Our bodies change, our metabolisms change, our brain changes, our tolerance for certain things changes. And, you know, my tolerance for suffering and self abuse is much lower now than it was when

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

you should build that back up.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

I've thought about it, but it seems like a large, largely a

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

It's, I get that though. My tolerance for noise has changed dramatically as in I don't have a tolerance for it anymore. I remember my mom was like that when I was, you know, When she was my age and I was much younger and I was just like, that's so weird. Like, what, what's the problem with this music? And now if I have more than one input of sound, I just want to kill someone. And there's lots of reasons for it, but the reasons don't matter. It's just acknowledging it and going, okay, I think loop earplugs are a wonderful thing to have in my purse. Thank you, loop. And on that non sponsorship note, to our listeners, thank you so much for listening in. We still can't believe you're listening and we love that you are. And if you are, this would probably be a great moment for us to remind you that like all the podcasts say, you should go like leave us a review or something so that we know you're listening because otherwise we're just talking into a void.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

so true. Let us know you exist. We will be so grateful.

squadcaster-egc8_2_05-14-2024_140932:

We would love it. Well, until then. Uh, uh, um, uh, wait, wait, um, yeah, let me just try French because no language was about to come out of my mouth. They were all jumbled up.

Oh, out of white folks.

squadcaster-gg71_2_05-14-2024_050932:

Adios.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Bonjola. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person brave enough to move abroad. See you next time!