Bonjhola

EP 37 - FLASHBACK - Rebecca Goes to Fontainbleau and Evades the Bliss Point

• Rebecca West

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Where to find Rebecca:

Welcome to Bonjola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each moved from the United States to Europe to become expats, Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure, encourage you to follow your own move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Bonjola, Rebecca, I saw you, I saw pictures of you, on the internet going through the forest and it looked glorious and I've got to know where were you and what happened?

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

yes, and yes, we decided it was time to go hunt down a little bit of nature near Paris. We were lucky because one of Damian's school friends brought up the idea of going for a hike. Not only is that always a yes for me. and it was one of the main things that I was nervous about losing by leaving the PNW, the Seattle area. But I wanted it so badly that I said no to going dancing the night before. That is the Sacrifice that I was a hundred percent eager and willing to make. because one of the things I have learned now that we're at month three of being here is that I have been saying yes to too many opportunities to play and burning the candle at both ends and I have to start making choices. I

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

What an unusual thing for you to do, Rebecca.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

know. It's almost like I'm Growing wise in my time here, I think it's all the good food. It's helping the neurons in my brain. So, yes. What, uh, we went to font and blue. So font and blue is a big, big chateau, that's pretty well known, but not as well known as Versailles. Partly because Versailles has all its like, you know, hall of mirrors and everything and it's related to Marie Antoinette and so it's got all of that romantic background. The Fontainebleau turns out is 500 years older than Versailles in terms of when it was started to be built in the first place as a hunting lodge. And what's really, aside from the fact that the structure, the chateau, is Huge. It's massive. It's like a thousand rooms or something ridiculous. What's what it's known for is the natural grounds that surround it. It is a massive national park and I didn't appreciate just how big it was and just how natural it was. I also didn't realize that getting there on a Sunday, If we had tried to do public transportation and I'm not even sure it would have fully worked, but it would have taken at least two and a half hours.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Wow.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

So being adult adults, being adults with a decent amount of money to our names where we can make choices, we decided to take an Uber and the three of us pile into an Uber. And then we get dropped off in the middle of the woods. Yeah.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

That's like the beginning of any summer horror movie.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

we, when we started out this trek, we were definitely referencing like the Walking Dead, Quiet Place, and especially Quiet Place because for those of you who have seen that movie, they have paths of sand so that you can walk on the sand and you don't make any noise because all the aliens are triggered by sound. Well, it turns out that Fontainebleau is covered in huge sandstone boulders. It's known in the bouldering community for being one of the premier places and one of the first places, I think, where bouldering really became a thing. All the boulders are made out of sandstone because The geology, for those of you who don't know, I'm a geology nerd. So the geology of the area is that there used to be a shallow sea all over this France area. And about 50 meters of beautiful white sand was laid down in this area. And then geology happened and all those boulders, all that sandstone got exposed and then eroded. And now it's all these boulders. And so now as those boulders keep eroding, it turns back into sand. So all the paths, white sand. So it's also really nice to walk on. It's got a softness to it. Kind of like the trails. in the Pacific Northwest, which have the cedar layer from the trees.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Mm hmm.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

So it's sandstone boulders, it's trees, it's a lot of heather like we saw on the Scottish moors. Um, and then it's also old quarries because of all the sandstone. So it's been quarried Since the 1100s, maybe earlier, a lot of the paving stones in Paris are from the quarries at Fontainebleau. So it was like this geology, history, nature, horror film, melange.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

No wonder you skipped dancing. This is like so up your alley.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

but I did not, I mean, it exceeded expectations. I figured it was going to be a nice walk in the woods. That is all I expected. So to have all those layers, I was. I was like a kid in a candy store.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Awesome. How many miles, kilometers of hiking trails are out there?

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

I have no idea how many. We did nine miles without even trying. Um, and what we, what we decided, so he, so our friend, Andres, he's from Hungary from Budapest. He was going to take us to this gorge area. There's, I mean, there's all kinds of areas. And so he just picked a place that we were going to walk. After the Uber dropped us off in the middle of the woods, we realized we weren't really going to be able to get an Uber to come pick us up. in the middle of the woods. So we decided to just walk towards Fontainebleau, the Chateau itself. So that ended up being a meandering nine miles because we, first of all, we definitely got lost a few times. The reception was good, but there are crisscrossing paths everywhere.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Right.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Um, And there's lots of little things labeled on the map. So he would be like, do you guys want to go see this? Like one point he was like, do you want to go see this brick house? And we're like, sure. Who doesn't like a brick house? Well, turns out it wasn't brick. It was one of these little quarry shelters from these millennia of people who have quarried. And so it was made of stones that were quarried. They were chiseled kind of in brick shape. But they're just stones and then they built up these walls up to the stone over or overhangs, these geological features that made these natural caves, basically. We're like, Oh yeah, we want to see a brick house, but it was not a brick

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

lot.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

This really cool anthropologic thing. So between the anthropology and getting a little lost, it probably didn't have to be nine miles. But here's the other thing that's cool about the Fontainebleau trails. They're actually labeled with like street names. So once you kind of get your bearings, you can actually navigate your way through this forest, this massive, massive forest, and end up at Fontainebleau and have a beer.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Now, what language were you speaking amongst yourselves since he's Hungarian? and

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

English. Everything's

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

was in English Okay.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

is as good as mine. As mine. It is cute though, because occasionally, let me see if I can think of an example. No, I can't think of anything.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

He'll pull out a Hungarian accent with Hawaii.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

No, he'll just mispronounce something, because he, it's, it's like when you read a language, and you don't hear how something is supposed to be said, and it's very easy to make assumptions based on all the other things you know about that language.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

We do that in our own language. We do that in our native tongue, right? Obscure words that, yeah, that you read and then you try and say them. It's not quinoa, it's quinoa.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Exactly. It was that kind of thing. But aside from that, his English is amazing. So the whole time we were just chatting it up in English.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Nice. So, you meandered nine miles, ended up at Fontainebleau, ended up having a beer.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

And then we discovered. well, first of all, this is exam week for Damien. So this was a break right before, well, between finals. He'd already done the written exams and he still had his two practicals. So he needed to be home by a certain time in order to do some more practicing. So with that in mind, we decided it wasn't the right day to see the Chateau because that would have been a rushed experience. But we discovered that you can see the grounds, and this is true at Versailles too, you can see the grounds and gardens for free. So we ended up wandering all around the Chateau, and we've got beautiful gardens, and lots of things to see, my favorite of which is that you can rent a boat on this little lake area. It's just straight out of a movie. It's so cute. Oh my gosh.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

As in, you rowed the boat yourself, or as in, oh,

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Yeah, just like at Green Lake where you and I used to live, you could rent a kayak or a paddle boat, but these are movie perfect boats. They're like, you know, V shaped at the front, little row boats and they're white. And then you're surrounded by Fontainebleau and gazebos and, you know, Railings that have been there for hundreds of years. You just feel like you're in a movie. It's so cool.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

That's amazing. That sounds fantastic. And in relation to Paris, is this north, south, east, west, where is this in relation to Paris? Paris.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

South of Paris. Yeah. And like I said, it was about an hour. I don't know if I said it. It was about an hour Uber drive and it would have been about two and a half hours by public transport. And that might only be available on weekdays. I have to do a little bit more research because we got lazy and just got the Uber.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

How much does an Uber put you out? For an hour.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Yeah, it was a hundred euros each way. Cool. But split amongst three people ended up being about a 70 Euro day, which given the fact that it was an entire day of exploring and entertainment and stuff, we, we felt like we got the value. And it saved us three hours of time, allowing us to play more and then still getting Damien home in time to study. So it was well worth it.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

That's good. That's good. How delicious has it been helping Damien practice for his finals?

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

I can't. Okay. So still I weigh having moved to France. I weigh as little as I did when I was 17 years old, right before I gained 35 pounds for the first time.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Wow. Now, you lost weight when you moved.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

I did. I lost weight when we moved here. My eating habits have completely changed my, and my walking amount has changed by like tenfold. Um, and that is despite the fact that I eat eclairs and chocolate cake and beef cheeks and veal blankets, like I don't even know the names of all these things. Everything's butter. I mean, how am I healthy? I don't, but yeah,

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Because everything Americans have taught you about nutrition is wrong, Rebecca. It's wrong.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

And the funny thing is I'm not, well, this is true. People come here and they're like, the portions are so small, but even with the port with even with the portions being small, I don't always feel like I can even finish what's on my plate. And it's a combination of one, the food is very rich to the point where sometimes I'm like, Damien, if you don't make me some vegetables now, like, like the Californian way. I'm going to die. So the food is very rich, but also everything feels and I am not a nutritionist like you and yet I can still tell the difference. Everything feels nutrient dense. So there's this satiety that I feel and I've come to, I have decided that my perspective on this is that American food, because it's all corporate. is engineered to keep you hungry. Like it's even in the marketing. We're not even lying about it. Once you pop, you can't stop. Like, and that doesn't make us go, Hmm, that's weird. Right? You eat here. He'll make me these crazy chocolate cakes. I'll have two bites. And I'm like, I'm done. I don't want anymore. It's bizarre.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

You are One, I, I, there's so, there's so much to say here. One, you remind me of me teaching classes that I used to teach at the polyclinic because I would use that you, once you pop, you can't stop reference. When I was discussing the bliss point, which is a, for those who don't know, the bliss point is the name that they have coined for the It's very specific scientific formula to make foods addictive. And there is research that's being published these last couple of years about the bliss point and the addictive nature of food and whether or not it is appropriate to qualify hyper processed foods in the same category as a potentially addictive substance like we do for cigarettes and alcohol. And when you put. People through the, um, through a, again, it's question, you know, the science isn't especially rigorous because it is a subjective assessment of addiction. The same percentage of people who, you know, accumulate enough points to be considered addicted to food is roughly about the same percentage of the population that we see addicted to other substances like alcohol and cigarettes. So this is like this conversation is happening in real time in the States right now in my profession. And what you talk about with regards to nutrients and satiety is, um, Absolutely on point. When your body gets the nutrients it needs, it doesn't need to seek out more food.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Yeah. It's, it's absolutely bananas. And I think that's exactly it. It, is it even food at that point? I remember when I was younger, at some point I realized that it was the same corporations making, like, I don't remember what junk food I was eating. Some kind of a junk food I was eating as we're also making the slim fasts that I was then having for my, the other weeks when I was on a diet.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Oh, wow.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

And it made me realize that I was in a financial cycle with one company eating in and out of the quote healthy and then unhealthy foods. And it was a real eye opener. And I'm glad I kind of had that aha moment as early as I did because it made me see food Very differently and I stopped buying, that was when I stopped buying diet food. I still buy a lot of convenience food because that's really my Achilles heel is I don't like cooking and so food has to be easy, um, which is another way that they trap you, right? Because here in France, food isn't intended to be fast or easy. Nobody, eats while walking except for the warm nubbin on your baguette that little that little toasty end right after you buy your baguette. Everybody eats that. But that's it, nobody's chewing while walking, they sit, they eat, they digest. You can stay at a restaurant in France for hours at one table and they won't look twice at you. It's, it's natural and expected. I

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

One thing to note too, with regards to the companies is that starting in the 1980s, Philip Morris. R. J. Reynolds, those big tobacco companies started heavily investing in our food industry and they now own Nabisco, General Mills, um, many of the companies that make our convenience foods are owned by tobacco companies ultimately. And so of course the same tactics that were extremely successful for them in the fifties and sixties and seventies are being used now to negate, deny. Offload responsibility for their contribution to the health crisis that our country is in.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

have feelings about that. It is nice. It's, I don't know, there's almost a little bit of survivor's guilt that I feel having left the States because

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Yeah.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

I love the fact that I'm an American. I am grateful for the fact that I am an American and it has afforded me so many opportunities and I want our country to thrive. To be healthy, but it's all so interconnected into the money that I, I even begin to understand how we, how we fix it. And so, you know, a lot of people have run away from the politics. That's not me because I think the politics everywhere are just stupid. That's just how it works. But I will admit that I was running at least towards an alternative lifestyle that I didn't feel that I could achieve for myself. in the States and it's proving to be true and I'm not having to work hard for it. I'm just walking and eating like a normal human. I am not dieting by any stretch of the imagination and yet I'm healthy and I am, I am loving it.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Yeah. Is there anything else that's happened since we spoke last that you're absolutely loving? Right.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Last week was kind of a bizarre week because I had A lot of social and, and social tends to also go hand in hand with wine. And so the week was a little blurry from the wine. I had a lot of pressure, if you will, upon me because. Two friends came into out of, came into Europe for the first time ever. They'd never been to Europe, much less Paris. It was their 30th wedding anniversary. And they were like, Oh, look, can you just choose a place for dinner? I'm like, Oh, geez. And they were like, we'll eat anything at any price point. So, you know, tip to people who are coming to visit somebody who lives here. Parameters are appreciated because we're new to, but I got to try out a new restaurant. with them and it was absolutely lovely. I gave them. Some choices of a couple of what are called brasseries, which is just a normal restaurant where French people eat. You've got tabacs, which is basically just grab a coffee, buy a lotto ticket. And then you've got bistros, which I think is the one right underneath the brasserie where it's, you know, have a coffee and a croissant, sit for a while. And then you got your brasseries, which is, you know, come have your escargot and your beef cheeks. And then you've got your fancy places. And fancy places are either going to be like Michelin level, crazy. Like the food is an experience. It's like theater and there's, you know, nitrogen. What is that stuff that, that makes

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Oh, the liquid nitrogen with the yes.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Or you're going to be paying for a view of the Arc de Triomphe, like I talked about in our Victoria episode, and you're definitely not paying for service or for food. And so I was really hoping they wouldn't pick fancy cause I didn't, I don't like spending that much money on food for the entertainment value of it. And I sure as heck don't like paying for a view and not getting decent service or food.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Right?

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

So Dubio was recommended and it hit every note. It was fantastic. The decor was great. And then the next day, my friend came in from out of town for a conference and she wanted the best niçoise salad in Paris. So again, I'm like, okay, I'll do some research. And we went to a comptoir. So a comptoir is a counter and there are a bunch of comptoirs This one is the Comptoir du Relais, R E L A I S. She said it was the best niçoise salad she has ever had.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Ooh.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

had a, it was all green salad. It was spinach and fresh peas in a lemon vinaigrette. And it was like putting an actual garden minus the dirt. in my face. It was so refreshing because of all the rich food that we were talking about earlier. So you can find vegetables that are fresh here. and then the final social was just a random evening where we're supposed to go study with one of Damien's school friends. But that friend said, let's meet at this wine bar. So studying was obviously not happening. This guy has a little bit more money than he needs. So he makes a habit when those vendors. So in Paris, this is true in a lot of cities. Vendors will walk around with bouquets of roses and guilt people who are clearly on a date. They'll guilt the guy. Into buying a rose for the beautiful woman. Ah, she's so beautiful. Right?

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Right.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

So for whatever reason, our friend got into his head many visits ago. This is, this didn't start this week, but I'd heard about it to just buy out the vendor. And I love that because it's like this windfall for the vendor. So yeah, it's obnoxious, but he's working for a living.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Exactly.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

He buys out this like two or three dozen bouquet of roses, hands them to me and another gal that was standing there and says, go hand these to people. And there was enough wine in our veins that we're like, okay, so, so this Swedish girl and I start wandering around. And of course the first response from people is no, no, no, we don't want your roses because this is exactly how the vendors approach

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Yeah. I think you're trying to get money from them.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Yeah. It's because, and that's a scam. Like there's scams where in Paris, people will like hand you a friendship bracelet, like, oh, it's free. And then they bully you for money.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Yep.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

So I see this happening. And so in my horrible French, I'm like, no, no, no, no. Notre ami, c'est fou, our friend, he's crazy. Um, he bought these roses and he asked us to hand them out. And they were, I guess, disarmed by my American ridiculousness. And then once you get a train going of people taking your roses, people kind of catch on that it's weird. And we ended up handing out all the roses. And then, and then that evening finishes by me meeting three people from Britain,

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Mm hmm.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

very tipsy at this point. I've done this roses thing. I don't even know what's going on. And then these people start talking to me like they're right out of my childhood favorite movie, My Fair Lady. And I totally geeked out. I was such an idiot.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Were you so tipsy that you talked to them to their face about how amazing their accent was and how it reminded you of your favorite movie?

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Amy, I did. I did.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Oh, God.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

I have such shame.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

You have such shame, it's splattering on me, and we're not even in the same room.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

It was horrifying. And this is what I mean. It's like, well, nobody died and I had a fun time and hopefully they were at least,

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Entertained.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

that's the only word we can come up with. And that was this week for me.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

That sounds like a very memorable week.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

I don't even understand what

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

they just thought you were an adorable, naive, slightly uncultured American woman.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

it's like, I do know better, but I don't know.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

danger of French wine, though. This is the danger of French wine. Listeners, Don't drink like Rebecca drinks, you'll get in trouble.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Yeah, and it isn't entirely my fault because that friend who has too much money, he just buys people drinks. So the wine's just flowing, you know, I don't watch out for your rich friends, they're dangerous. It was delightful. And I guess my, my gift to offer to people is, you know, sometimes you're going to have a little too much wine. And you're going to revert into being a real stupid tourist. And don't beat yourself up about it because it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. Wake up the next day. They can't find you. Like don't, don't give them your Instagram account. Right. Um, Oh, let me add this. Here's, here's the real faux pas. Because these people that I met worked in the building industry, which is the thing that I am obsessed with, like I want to know how it works here. I made the faux pas, which you do not do in France, of spending out of work time talking about what they do for a living.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Oh.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

things you do not talk about. socially in France. Now the saving graces, they were Brits. So

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Oh, that's good.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

I'm allowed to stay in France cause I think they might kick me out if this had been French people. But you don't talk about money, like what you make or anything like that. You can talk about money in terms of like I guess getting a good deal on things. They love getting a good deal. I know this from some apps that I've been watching. I'm not making this up. This comes from French people saying this. But basically, you don't talk about money or income, and you definitely don't talk about work when you're not in work. Which, I, my wine informed tongue wouldn't shut up about it. And again, nobody died.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Nobody died.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Take it away. Don't

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

I do think that, yeah, given that they were British, I think that's, if there was anybody in Europe that you would, you know, make that faux pas with, the British are a good fit. Yeah. That's a good, good, place to land.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

That's true. You've talked about the British and how they're perceived in Spain. It's not necessarily in a positive light. Am I remembering that right?

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

it isn't. It isn't. And I believe that is because Spain is to Britain what Cabo San Lucas, Cancun, and Miami Beach at spring break is to Americans. And so, yeah. the Spaniards get to see Brits let their hair down. They get to see them not keep calm and carry

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

What

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

so, so yeah, the Spaniards don't really, you know, being an American here is nice because Americans who come over all the way across the Atlantic, are not your spring break crowd. And so we're perceived very differently here than, than the Brits are. I will say, you know, having recently been in London, one of the things that I saw that made me really grieve for the British is how much of their mannerisms have been influenced by America. And I, you know, I've seen how the United States has continued, how we have continued to export some of our most unsavory products, practices, and culture to the rest of the English speaking world. And it makes me rather sad.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

you see?

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

So what I saw specifically is, well, obviously there's British politics, right, which, you know, they have this revolving door of prime ministers that has been going on for a couple of years. Their politics is just as effed up as ours is. And I think I can say that unobjectively. And I'm sure they would agree. that it's pretty bad for the Brits right now. But I also noticed that they were doing a lot of the excessive apologizing, a lot of the hyperbolic languaging where something that Um, is not at all traumatic, would be labeled as, oh, I got the, I had this trauma because, know, I forgot my pen in the loo. You know, something like bullshit like that, that rubs me the wrong way when Americans do it. And I was very sad to see the Brits doing it. And it wasn't once, it was like multiple times. So I know it's a cultural infiltration. And then the other thing I saw was, um, was sort of the, the. sad state of, you know, apologizing for being male and white and trying to tell somebody something because, you know, if you're male and white, you don't have a right to do that anymore because you are the inherent evil of the universe. So seeing that was a little dismaying as well. Um, you know, that was, that's one of the things that I've been really happy to get away from being in Europe. That was that sort of mentality and attitude of the hyperbolic languaging and the excessive self flagellation that I think is so grossly unattractive and actually doesn't help anybody out, um, if I may be judgmental. So it made me glad that we didn't go to London, that we didn't move. to Britain. Um, and I don't know if Ireland is the same way. I adore Ireland, but given how the rest of the Western English speaking world has been behaving the last couple of years, we just took them all off the list and, um, opted out of going to an English speaking country when they left the States. And, and I, I'm still glad that that was what we did.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Yeah, I mean, aside from the fact that it's the opportunity to give your son a multilingual life too, so separate from that, I do wonder if You know, we've talked a lot about how learning French in Paris is so hard because it's so cosmopolitan. So, I wonder if you had gone someplace other than London, if you would have actually felt the same thing. If it might be a London thing, because it, again, is such a node of all the people.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Right. That's a good point. I don't know.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

We'll have to go back and find out because we can take trains to anywhere here.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

So true. So true. And honestly, though, I mean, to, to, to take that point a little bit further, even within the United States, if you get out of the progressive big cities, you don't find white men apologizing for telling anybody who's not white or male something,

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

No, we definitely don't. Yeah, so, it is important to remember that the big cities. The cultural experiences you're going to have are going to be pros and cons. Very different from the experiences you'll have if you allow yourself to get a little bit more rural. And I would highly encourage people to do both kinds of travel, so that you understand a broader cross section of the country that you're visiting.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Or even the country that you're in.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Or even the country that you're in, yes!

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

I think a lot of the progressive West Coast and East Coast would benefit greatly from going to some small towns and seeing those people face to face rather than reading about them in the media. And vice versa, people in those, you know, central states would benefit from having a conversation with folks in the city.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

If I could wave a magic wand, not everybody knows I was in the Peace Corps right out of college, and that's of course meant to be a cultural exchange between countries, specifically between the U. S. and other countries, and I have a lot of feelings about the Peace Corps structure, but my magic wand would be A compulsory AmeriCorps where you go spend two years in a American place that is different from the American place where you grew up. I think our whole country would be the better for it,

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

We have wandered through the Fontainebleau forest. We've gone back to London. I don't even know how we wrap this one up.

aimee_2_06-11-2024_051154:

I don't know either. I think it's, it's time to, to say au revoir, adios, ciao.

squadcaster-9cb6_2_06-11-2024_141154:

Yeah. And, uh, and bye y'all.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Bonjola. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person brave enough to move abroad. See you next time!