Bonjhola

EP 50 - Rebecca Goes to Eugene and Reflects Upon Her First Visit Back to the States

• Rebecca West

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Welcome to Bonjola, a podcast about two women, Aimee and Rebecca, who each moved from the United States to Europe to become expats, Aimee to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure, encourage you to follow your own move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Bonjola, Rebecca,

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Angela, Aimee.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

you have just returned. Actually, not just. How long have you been back?

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Oh, about a week. I don't know though. Telling you the very strange construct in my

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Indeed, especially when you're crossing time zones and going halfway across the world.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

and lose days. Yes.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

It is legit.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I found it really easy to go back to the United States. I flew all the way from Paris through Seattle to Eugene, Oregon. So as far as I could go, not counting Hawaii, uh, so easy going there. So hard coming back to Europe and losing a day. I'm still disoriented.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the first time that I flew to Spain from Seattle, it took me, like, we were here in Spain for four weeks and it took me three weeks to acclimate.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Yeah,

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

It's nuts.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

but do you hit the ground running when you go back the other direction?

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Out of necessity, so I'm so high on adrenaline, I don't know if I wouldn't otherwise.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Yeah, I relate to that because I was there for a speaking event that was three days long and included five different talks. So I have no idea if it's just the reverse jet lag or if it's also just the adrenaline that I was feeling,

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah. Yeah.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

but it was

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Does anybody go to the United States to relax? Like is that a thing?

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

People do go there to vacation, but you know, even when you think about going to the United States to vacation, or you hear people's stories, it's almost always like New York, which I wouldn't consider relaxing, um, or it's like one of the big parks, which is relaxing, but it's a grand physical adventure.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

No, I don't associate the United States with any form of relaxation whatsoever.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

I don't know that anybody, I would love to hear the experience of someone who does feel like the U. S. is the place to go to relax.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Yeah, like even on beaches, like I think of like Miami, there's no relaxing there. Um, and then, uh,

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

know, I say that, I say that, and you know, in the brief conversation we had before we started recording, in some ways for you, it was.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

yes. Okay. Yeah. I mean, the fact that I'm an American going home, excuse me, and a United Statesian going home,

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Does France do that too? Do they, you say, how do you say, you know, what most of the world calls American? How do you say that in French?

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

well, that's still the same. So there's a gender change. So my husband is American, excuse me, and I'm American. Um, but what I really get it from are all of the people who are currently in France from the rest of the Americas. So my Venezuelan and Argentinian and Canadian, all of those friends, my Mexican friends, they're like, uh, they, they tend to correct you when you're like, Oh, are you from America? And like, they're like, yes, I am. I am from America. Thank you very much. Even though it's not the United States.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah, I've only had one person correct me here, and he was a Spaniard, um, but he's like, no, no, no, estas estadounidense, and I'm like, that's such a fucking hard word to say, pardon my French audience, I apologize, in, in Spanish it's estadounidense, and that A pain in the ass to come off the tongue, one. And two, nobody calls us that. Nobody, I call myself an American because that's what the rest of the world calls me. So don't correct me on what the rest of the world calls me. Which I did not say because I don't have the language competency. To fight back with my words, and so I just smiled and laughed and said, see. I

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

me. Number one, because as United Statesians, we have such a tiny view of, well, let's say it differently. We think the world revolves around us. We forget the rest of it exists. So I don't mind.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

100 percent agree. What I get upset with is that this person is assuming I'm the arrogant one when all I'm doing is using the language that the rest of the world has taught me to use in self referential conversation.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I will

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

I feel, is unfair. So,

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

will

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

plus I might be PMSing and I'm perimenopausal, so everybody just leave me alone.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I'm just going to stop talking until you're done too. Are we done?

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

I'm done. Sorry.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I will also say that when people in France say, where are you from? They usually say the words, uh, vous venez d'où? Which means, you come from where? And so, Actually, the way it's structured, you almost would always answer back with your country,

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Right?

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

what you quote are. So you know, I come from the United States is actually a phrase that is very specific.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Mm-Hmm?

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Um, but if I am expressing my nationality, yes, that is American in French as well. Um, so yes, as an American, it was very nice to go quote home. the best part. Was shopping in a drugstore that wasn't even a drugstore. It was just my good old safe way with all of my drugs right at my fingertips. Yes. To anybody wondering, my suitcase came home with NyQuil, DayQuil, Pepto, Mucinex, Aleve, Vicks Scrub, and Icy Hot. I got the whole thing. Also, um, I really love St. Ives Apricot Face Scrub.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Oh yeah.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Perfection. So I stocked up on a couple of those too.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Nice.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

So that was amazing. Um, it was extra nice to do it in Oregon cause there's no sales tax. So there was no additional 10 percent tax. However, obviously I wasn't the land of tipping.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Mm.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I got out of the. So a driver picked me up from the airport and I didn't have any cash on me and I immediately went into American guilt mode. I felt so bad, went to the bank, got a bunch of fives and I'm like, I'm going to do tipping right. And I was like, Honestly, it was embarrassing. I was kind of making a scene like I'm tipping you. Here's your five dollars. It was so dumb.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

You think that came from?

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

general feeling of awkwardness that's always been there around tipping, but has been elevated by the fact that it's not a thing here in France. Um, yeah, and then, so drugstores, tipping, and then I didn't know, so anybody going to Eugene and who loves secondhand clothing shops, there are some fantastic ones right there within walking distance of the Gordon Hotel. One is a really good Buffalo exchange, so anybody who knows Buffalo. It's just kind of current clothes in really good condition. They do a great job vetting. I got myself the best wool pink trench coat. Okay, so trench, very French, pink, very not French, very Emily in Paris. I have decided that I just have to do my own version of Rebecca being French, which will never be French enough to

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

right?

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

not look American. So anyway, thanks to Buffalo Exchange. Then there's one called Wild Paisley, which is up above Uh, like a weird, it's kind of weird to go up a weird staircase to get there. So worth it filled with beautiful clothes from the forties, fifties. Into the eighties, like the cool stuff from the eighties. That's now finally cool. Again, such a trip, so much fun. If my rib cage weren't modern sized, I would have bought things.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah,

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Um, yeah, so that was the fun. The fun of being an American was. I know how to ask for things like, I went into that vintage store with a backpack and like a bag full of other stuff and I said with my words, Hello, could I put my backpack behind the counter so that it's easier to browse? There is no way I would be able to say that in French still to this day and I'm so So, Loved that. Loved the E's. Loved that it was fall in Oregon and the colors and the pumpkins and everything. And I did love that everybody smiled. When I crossed the street at the crosswalk, the person sitting in their car, big smile, big wave, A person hanging out of their food truck, big smile, big wave.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

I don't think we see that in Seattle anymore.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

No, you know, it felt like, it felt like old Portland to me.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah, yeah, Because that doesn't happen in Portland anymore either. When I was in Portland last summer, there were no smiles. It was a little bit better than, a little bit better than 2021, but still not. Still not.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

It was old world PNW. It was so nice. And honestly, I think that even if I went to Seattle, the contrast with the number of smiles I get in France would still be delightful.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Waitstaff is pretty cool, right? Waitstaff that's aiming to please you?

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Oh my gosh. Oh yeah. They are at your service. You feel like royalty. I mean, you're getting spanked left and right for tips and stuff, but you are getting a different level of behavior with that service mentality, with that tip mentality. It's fascinating.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

But you know, it's, I don't, nowadays, because service charges are added, And we don't choose how much we tip anymore. We are forced to tip a certain amount. Um, I don't think that it is, it isn't what it was before. It's just that because we started off with tips, I think the culture of service. Is such, you know, that sort of serving, right?

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Yeah, it's like a legacy at this point. They're not doing it for the tip.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Right.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

It's still the expectation that goes hand in hand.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

exactly. Exactly. You know, it was interesting. I heard a point of view here. Um, that, you know, someone was arguing against the. Importation of American tip culture here in Europe saying, you know, if we do this here, it's going to incentivize employees to employers to pay their employees less, which ultimately will reduce the amount of their pension when they retire, please do not do this. Tip when you are in Europe. Do not feel guilty for doing it. You are ultimately making sure that these people have more money when they retire. And it was something I hadn't even considered stateside. About how much tipping, I mean, well, now, you know, now tipping is, is, is taxed in a lot of places. It's not the free money that it used to be. So theoretically that would be contributing to social security, but it was something that I hadn't ever considered as part of the reason why tipping is so fundamentally broke, like messed up, you know, in terms of how, how it's become an expectation in the States. And I thought that was like, uh, that was really, that really hit home for me. That, holy crap, we're denying these people a future in their elderly years if we force this on Europe because we're American and we only know how to do things one way.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Well, it relates to so many lessons I've had while living here, which is that somehow it's more obvious or the people are more aware of the nuance of political decisions, with the exception of Brexit. You know, there is a ripple effect to every single decision we make as individual humans or as societies, and everything is so linked. That to try and say let's stop doing this one aspect or let's start doing this one aspect and then to not be honest about all the other things that's going to affect

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Right.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

small thinking, but one of the things that I noticed, too, about Americans. Is we really like black and white answers in a way that I don't feel is true here in Europe.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Mm hmm. It's

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I embrace nuance here and there we want right and wrong, enemy and, and hero. And life doesn't work that way, even as we demand that it does.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah. But I, I don't know. You know, I feel like there was a very clear moment in U. S. history where that happened. In my memory, and maybe it's, maybe it's true that we've always been kind of simplistic in our thinking and not wanting to deal with nuance for longer, but certainly I feel like, you know, during the, during the Iraq war, when George Bush, Jr. said, you're either with us or against us that line in the sand, I feel was the beginning of, of the United States, culturally adopting that mindset. There can only be this way or the other way. There is no messy middle. I don't, and I, you know, I mean, I'm remembering, I feel like there was more bipartisanship during Clinton years. That was the first time I could vote was the Clinton years. And, you know, I can't speak to Reagan because. I was too young.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Yeah, well, and I wonder if we actually are looking at this through our generation's eyes, because I think about McCarthyism, about the segregation of many different cultures, the Japanese and the Chinese in our past, I think about the Cold War, and then I also think about it from the perspective of if, Perspective of if I were say Russian, there's definitely a them versus us mentality. So maybe I'm Trying to put too much responsibility on our generation and our culture Maybe this is more of a human trait to wish to have these clear answers

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

I think it's definitely a human inclination, you know, in stages of human development, of which I have very limited experience with one child. You definitely see tiny humans go through this phase where it is either this or that. And like the brain just doesn't have the wiring yet to grasp nuance. And I mean, maybe that's just where we all revert to when we are overworked, stressed out, overtired, struggling to make ends meet and barely functioning in a dysfunctional society. Maybe that's why we crave it so much.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

and when we are nervous, we obviously go back to our defaults And so then of course the politicians and the media play on those fears and make us go into that shelter mode of I've got to be on the defense.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

And which is an interesting lead in because I mentioned all the things that I enjoyed in Oregon. But what I didn't expect was that by day two, I felt this kind of, you know, In the air, the sense of desperation, and it may also be coming from my own fears, the idea of being one bankruptcy away or one illness away from bankruptcy. The fact that we have to chase every single dollar, even those smiles started to feel a little forced and desperate because we There aren't enough dollars as an American. You're never, ever actually safe as an American. And I mean, one as a human isn't ever safe. Anything can happen at any moment, but the social safety nets that are in place here in France, where no matter how desperate you get, you have access to healthcare, it just, it really changes the whole thing. And it made it to the point where. I was so ready to leave by the time I left to come back to a place where it felt like, and this is something that you've kind of mentioned before, where it felt like somebody cares whether or not you live or die is really what this comes down to.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

And I had a one really weird encounter that kind of summed it all up for me. I was walking, you know, So I was being very European and I was walking from my hotel to the expo center, which is, they were like, you walked here and I was like, yeah, it was 20 whole minutes.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Nothing.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I'm walking to the event center one day and this guy was in front of me holding four huge trash bags of cans. They collect cans. Um, it reminds me of when, when I lived in Michigan, this little girl, we would collect cans because they had 10 cents worth of cans. Um, return rate on the key. So that would take us to Chuck E. Cheese's a very American institution so they do the same thing in Oregon and actually it's even better. I don't know what they're doing in Michigan now, but it turns out they've got the system, some sort of a drop system where. All of the pennies add up and you can actually spend them at different stores, too. So anyways, this guy has a system like he's got the bags are tied together, one slung around his neck, one's in his hand. You can tell that he's got the system. I'm pretty impressed. I'm like way to go. Scrappy American making ends meet. And as I walked past him, because I was walking faster, I was like, Hey, it looks like you had a good system. And we had our moment. I keep walking. We're not five minutes later, this big, like garbage truck municipal truck of some kind pulls up and my cute, naive, innocent brain goes, Oh, he's going to help him like, save a step, you know, so the guy gets out of this truck comes kind of, you know, aggressively stomping towards the guy with the cans and he says, with lots of Oh, Spicy language, you bad person. I have you on camera on my back porch, grabbing those bags. And then he starts to threaten him And I decided that was Rebecca's cue to walk away. I didn't need to be involved, but it was such a code switch for me of thinking scrappy American making ends meet to desperate human stealing. And then, of course, you're thinking about this guy driving this municipal truck. He's a blue collar guy doing his job. He does. He need the money as much as the guy, the homeless guy who's collecting the cans. Who gets to decide this?

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Right.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

It was. It was such a moment for me that I've drawn no conclusions from, but it really crystallized that desperation that I was feeling,

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

A hundred percent. Yeah. Straight fighting over used soda cans.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

right? Oh,

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah, that's really sad.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

no, I know. And I just wished for something else in that moment.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

So you were actually, you were, how long were you in Oregon?

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Remember that time thing? I think it was five days. That was three days. I had one day of cushion before, and then two travel days. One of which counts as two days. So I don't know how the math works, but let's call it five.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

okay. All right. All it took was for me to be in London for, I mean really, 36 hours before politics came up with strangers on the street. And, you know, you're, you were there less than a month from Election Day. Did like, was there moms? The word where people talking were

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

No, to be fair, my engagement with other humans was the staff at the hotel. Um, and then the event producers and show people and vendors and exhibitors. So, you know, their minds were all in very specific things. I did go to dinner with, uh, two different people during my time there and no, not once. Was anything political brought up, which I do find really interesting.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

That's wonderful. I

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

it's sort of like, what's the word when you can spark something and set it on fire, that it's like people are just kind of not going there. That's more what it feels like to me then. Oh, we're just not talking about it. Yeah.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

guess, I mean, I guess that would kind of make sense because what I know of Eugene geographically is that it's definitely not Portland and it's, you know, but it's also not Eastern Oregon. And so it's probably pretty purple politically. And maybe that's why nobody wanted to open their mouth because you can't tell who's on whose side, whereas in Seattle, there's an assumption that everybody's going to vote one way and, uh, you know, almost a freedom and liberation to say what you think. Right.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I did have one curious, um, moment curious for me, and that one of the people who came up to me after my talks and bought one of my books, like this guy, he must have been somewhere in his twenties young, um, he was, uh, I'm pretty sure he's a vet. A war vet of some kind, young again, wearing a MAGA hat, which is not something that happens in the Seattle circles. So as you say, it's both sides. And it was really interesting having such an enthusiastic conversation with somebody about, obviously not politics. We're talking about home and the changes you can make in order to get happier. So very neutral territory. And the whole time I'm thinking, I wonder what conversation we'd be having if I had some sort of an identifier on me as well. Um, and it was just a really interesting moment where, because like the whole time I'm hyper aware of the marker that he's wearing about his own values. And I don't know if I told you here here in France, uh, maybe I don't, again, time. I don't know if this happened before or after, Eugene. A friend of mine that I do co working with, she asked me who I was going to vote for. Did I tell you about that?

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

I don't think you did. No.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

So, as you say, in Seattle, that's a throwaway question. You pretty much can assume that if you're a Seattleite, you're voting for Harris Waltz. This gal is from somewhere on the Eastern, old Eastern block. I can't remember which country

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Oh, yes.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I tell you about this? Did we record about this?

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Did we record

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

We did.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

I don't think we did. Okay, go ahead and tell the story.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

So she says, who are you going to vote for? I think it's a throwaway question. I'm like, well, Kamala. And I thought the conversation was going to be over and she surprised me. And the reason I'm surprised, cause she's a female and that's how I see a lot about this vote. And she was saying, you should vote for Trump. I'm surprised you're not voting for Trump. I gave her my roots and it was such an interesting conversation, not because the conversation was interesting, but because if I had had that conversation with anybody in America, especially with how. vehemently, we were talking by the end of the conversation that would have ended that friendship. We wouldn't have had another conversation. And she hadn't seen each other and had completely normal conversations. I thought that was a really that. And then my, my guy at the talk with his mega hat, it's a really good reminder that we can be humans together. As you and I keep saying, we are not enemies. We don't have to agree on everything in order to agree on some things.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

I mean, it used to be like that at home.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Yeah.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

We used to be able to respect that people had different political opinions and have and appreciate who they were as human beings, regardless of their political proclivities. Know, when we were growing up, we all have family members that were on one side of the political aisle and on the other side of the political aisle, and sometimes things were heated. we would still all come together for the holidays, and now, you know, now you cancel family members, you cancel siblings, you cancel people you've known for decades, um, and I think some of that is exacerbated by the fact that both political parties speak to every election as though this is the election that is going to destroy the country if you don't vote for me. And to the degree to which people believe that and believe that. You know, one person in the president's seat can completely overthrow the judicial system and Congress and the House of Representatives in four years time, you know, the degree to which you believe that is true, the more you're going to hold on to this idea that it is a life or death situation that warrants eliminating loved ones. This is how civil war happens. Right. Right. And, and during, during our civil war, we did have siblings on opposite sides, pro union siblings, pro Confederate siblings who murdered each other.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

that's a very important reminder, because again, this is not the first time we've been on this merry go round.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

And, but I also don't want to be naive, you know, you think about, early Nazi sympathizers who were just trying to make it through their day and not ruffle feathers. You think about the fact that the one thing that the president has a huge amount of control is who gets onto the courts. That lasts generation after generation as a, as a ripple effect. So it's hard because I don't want to live my life with that. In fear, I don't want those stories of fear to make decisions, especially about my family members, but I also want to be a responsible citizen thinking about the future of, you know, not my children, because I don't have any, but I certainly care about your child and the other children in my life. There's

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah, exactly.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

no easy answers.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

No, no, there isn't. And I do not, you know, the closer we get to election day, the more and more in my heart goes out to everybody at home. Who's sitting in that quagmire of. uncertainty and stress. Um,

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

so speaking of family and going back, I think a nice place to wrap this up would be the fact that you have decided to go home for Thanksgiving. How are you feeling about that?

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

I have, well, it, it took care of my homesickness as soon as I made that decision. Uh, and it elevated me to goddess status in my child's eyes because I'm taking him with me. Um, and it's just going to be the two of us, which will be a fun mother son trip. Cause you know, my husband's like, I don't want to go back for anything and I do not blame him, you know, and it's not his family. We're going to see so he's not homesick for his family the way I've become homesick for mine. so yeah, so now I am, you know, for, for, I think I told him that this was happening about 10 days ago. And multiple times a week, he tells me I am the best mother in the world. He's so excited that we're going back to the States for Thanksgiving. He can't wait to see his cousins. He can't wait to go to Walmart. He can't wait to be stateside. And it's both really sweet. And, and I have this background thought of, I can't tell you all of the reasons why we left, because you're not old enough. To hear why we don't want to go back and live there. And he has this, you know, we've had enough time away. The pandemic is over by and large for everybody, except for a very, very tiny sliver of the community, in the U S. And so the further we get away from that, the more he romanticizes what it means to be in the U S. And he's just like, well, I think I'm more of a city person. There's so much to do. Nevermind a month ago, he was convinced he was a country person. Right. And I'm like, but when we live there, we weren't doing things. We do more things here than we did there. He's like, ah, I don't know. I don't know. But he, you know, he's, he has this romanticized idea of what it means to be in the States. And I hear that's actually very common for, American children of expats for, I don't know, Hollywood reasons? I don't know, I'm not sure. But he went to a very small private school when we were in the States that he had been at since pre K and he's never gone through a shooter drill. My sister's daughter started doing active shooter drills in like kindergarten or first grade. My son's not had that experience. I'm not ready to tell him that that is a risk of returning to the States

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I'm curious about that choice. I find that, again, not a parent, right? But I was a child once. I find that parents are about five years too late on giving kids information they get on their own.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Yeah.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

your son is a very articulate, mature child. I'm surprised by that choice.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

When he was four or five years old, I made the mistake of telling him that dodos became extinct Because humans overhunted and ruined their environment, and that that caused the Dodos to go extinct. For months, he was distraught, devastated, hated humanity. The first thing he said when I told him this was, Humans are shit! And he's like, barely out of toddlerhood, right? It was It's utterly devastating to him, traumatizing to him. He still doesn't like to talk about dodo birds at all. And

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

do you feel like sheltering him is helping him be the resilient human you want him to grow up to be?

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

oh, he's gotten a lot of resiliency practice moving to a foreign country. I'm not worried about that, but I don't want him. I have had to work so hard for decades now to push back against the pessimistic cynicism against humanity that was. imbued in me through what I learned from the church, what I learned from opinions of certain family members. And I don't want him to enter adolescence with a sense of futility and hopelessness about the humans that he is forced to live with on this planet, right? I want him to have a more positive perspective of what he can expect from others and I don't want him to worry about his friends getting shot. When he is older and can integrate that information in a more balanced way, Of course, I'll tell him certainly if he decides, like, I mean, if we have to go back to the United States, for whatever reason, I will have to tell him if he decides he wants to go to college and he decides to go to college in the U. S. I will, you know, but then I imagine he would know, um, you know, and I would tell him long before that.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

I'm curious. Because he's, he's 11. Does he have his own phone? Does he have access to the internet? What's his experience of the global world that's not filtered through you at this point?

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

he does not have a phone. He has an iPad and has access to the internet, access to YouTube videos. I, because active shooter drills are so normalized in the United States, I think the children that he knows that goes to public schools or, or participating in them probably don't even think about it as being a shooter. Being a conversation that you would have with other kids any more than we thought about that with, you know, duck and cover cold war stuff, Right. Everybody did it. It was normal. so that conversation to my knowledge has never come up. If it has come up, he hasn't talked to me about it. His interest is not in current events. So, you know, he's not looking at CNN, he's not, he's not tapping into the American news cycle, thank God, because there is no amount of Spain that can get somebody off of the anxiety rollercoaster that is staying connected to American news and politics.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

It will be really interesting to watch the next few years unfold, you know, at some point I assume he will have a phone. Is it common for his friends? Because again, he's in Montessori, so he is having a slightly different upbringing than the regular public education.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

the school is very anti phone. The school is very anti phone.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

And so you're surrounded with other parents and things that are like minded in this particular case.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

yeah. Or they have, you know, he does have a friend who does have a cell phone, but they're not allowed on campus. And he, he's the outlier in that regard, having his own phone. It is not common. Honestly you don't know to what degree adolescents in Spain have cell phones because they're not. So so I can't, I don't have a sense of how common it is for teenagers to have phones here. Um.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

You'll be finding out soon.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Indeed. Indeed I will.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

Well, I think that we should wrap this up. I'm glad to have gone back to the United States. I am extra glad to be back here. I'm excited for your trip coming up and I'm glad that it's going to help with some of your homesickness. And I'm very curious to see how your son enjoys it and what his response is to the whole trip when we talk about it afterwards. Is there a takeaway?

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Is there a takeaway? Oh my gosh. Our American listeners. I do hope you're taking care of yourself. Take

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

our takeaway. Our takeaway is, if you're feeling down, go find a fabulous vintage store and buy yourself something wonderful.

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

from today's episode. Retail therapy is everything.

rebecca_1_10-29-2024_135356:

And with that life advice, à la

aimee-guest117_1_10-29-2024_055356:

Bye.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Bonjola. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person brave enough to move abroad. See you next time!