Bonjhola

EP 55 - Aimee's back on the bottom of the spanish language rollercoaster, but is still a chingona!

• Rebecca West • Episode 55

Share episode

Send us a text

Where to find Aimee:

Where to find Rebecca:

Welcome to Bonjola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each moved from the United States to Europe to become expats, Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure, encourage you to follow your own move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Bonjola, Aimee.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

It

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

we signed on today that you have labelled yourself La Chingona, which I hear is, uh, a bit of a naughty turn of phrase. Why did we call ourselves La Chingona, where does it come from, and what's going on, Aimee?

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

just came to mind. Um, it, it means, actually chingona is Mexican Spanish, not Spain Spanish for like badass, uh, the feminine.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Nice!

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Yeah, I've heard it used positively and negatively. Um, so I think it's kind of up for interpretation as to whether it's asshole or badass. I think, I don't know, I've been hanging out with Spaniards and not Mexicans for the last year. So my memory, and my memory, my goodness, my brain is like all sorts of mixed up because, Because languages, um, yeah,

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Well, so, speaking of languages, you mentioned before we were on air that what you're really struggling with right now is language. You're down at the bottom of the roller coaster again. What's going on?

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

I am, I hate that they have stupid names for everything and they want us to remember how to use things by their name, right? So, for instance, if I want to say, If I want to say, que te vaya bien, I have to understand, no, this is like subjunctive versus conditional versus plus cum perfecto versus imperative versus indicative. And I'm like, don't confuse, don't add all these extra stupid words that don't actually matter in my head. Just tell me how to speak the freaking language. Because it's such a struggle anyway. And then, and then our Spanish teacher likes to talk a lot. She likes to talk a lot. And the more she talks, the more confused I get. Because she says a lot of stuff, and then throws in things that I guess we're supposed to know the different, the difference between conditional one and conditional two without her explaining it. And I'm like, what the F is the, what does this? What is happening? What is happening? So, I'm in a place where I'm looking at the homework, and it's not clear to me which tenses I should be using. And it turns out, well, that's because, you know, different sentences require different tenses, but the instructions don't tell me to expect more than one tense or different tenses. And I am frustrated and I feel like I don't want to do this anymore. And then I feel like a whiny little baby for not wanting to do this anymore because that's one of the main reasons why we're here.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

True,

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

And, uh, you know, my Spanish tutor yesterday was asking me, If I felt more confident in my ability to speak Spanish, and I was like, well, kinda, but it doesn't matter if I feel confident because I felt confident in what I was doing last year. And then you get these corrections back, and it's like, no, actually, you don't know Jack. You don't know anything. You don't even, like, babies talk better than you. And so it doesn't, like, I don't know, maybe I'm better, maybe I'm not, but I really can't objectively assess if I sound better. Any more like a human being rather than, you know, hallucinating AI stringing words together. That doesn't make sense,

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

I can so identify with what you're talking about. I'm not feeling that way about the language right now, but I've been on that very similar place, uh, as a business owner lately, just like this again, this again, like Really? I don't, I don't want to do this, especially don't want to do it again. And it just, it's crazy making, but one of the things that does help is my husband will sometimes remind me that the things that are making me cry now aren't actually bigger and harder than the things that were making me cry before.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

That's pretty cool.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

it helps. I'm still crying, but

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

I think that's fantastic. I mean, that isn't a, that is, you have an external source objectively assessing that you have. Grown. And that you can handle harder things now. I still get my papers

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

like your tutor. Your tutor is not able to objectively give you feedback.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

I mean, I haven't asked for it and in a way I don't really want it. Yeah. In a way I don't, I don't, I mean, I think I do have better recall of words. I do have a sense of, you know, more intuitive sense of different tenses based upon what I'm talking about. But I just get so, like if you just picked a random Spaniard on the street and asked them. Can you please use a sentence that uses both the indicative present tense and conditional to? They would look at you like you were talking in a foreign language, because chances are they don't really know that either. So, why am I being forced to learn this bullshit? Pardon my French again. I swear, I, every episode, we're just going to have to put a warning that Aimee's got a potty mouth.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

We're gonna have an explicit, but then our, then our podcast will really take off. You know, obviously what you're saying is 100 percent true because it would be true about Americans as well. If we went on the U. S. streets and said, use conditional tense, they'd be like, what is conditional tense? Well, we use it every day naturally. The problem is that we learned it like children learn it. We didn't have labels. We just did it. Kind of got the context of when you say it this way versus that way, and we were correct, corrected over and over again without that grammatical structure. I had learned a language before, I had learned Spanish before learning French, so I already went through that, creating that lattice in my head, really those kind of those file drawers. So when I took on French, I was like, yeah, there's the conditional, there's the subjunctive. And I didn't have to create the labels. Whereas Damien, he's never learned another language before. So he is having to create the labels and file drawers at the same time as he's putting things in those file drawers in his head. And that is, it definitely slows down the process. And I think that it also makes you feel like you take two steps forward and then you feel like you took four steps back because you were feeling so good. And then they just, Going complicated again for no good reason. And yeah, I just, it makes me want to smack the French. You want to smack the Spanish. I get it.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Yeah. You know, when I was learning Spanish the first time in junior high and high school, we did, you know, we did have that. Low score and perfecto and perfect subjunctive, et cetera, et cetera. Those are not completely foreign terms to me, but I think at that age, because I had been immersed in Spanish from ages zero to four, I think I didn't bother to create a lattice because I was like, Oh, that doesn't matter.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Mm hmm.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

This is what it means. This is how you do it. And you know, my extra juicy adolescent brain just. integrated it without doing the extra work of, of, of memorizing the grammatical terms that are there. And, I, I feel here in Spain, the emphasis on the mechanics of the language is higher and more valued than what I recall experiencing in high school and even undergrad. Cause I did take Spanish, I think my freshman year of college as well.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

I am surprised to hear that because I found the same thing to be true in France, but I expected it because they are so in love with their language. I mean, they literally have game shows and news segments about the history of their language and where words come from. And like, honestly, I totally love the geekiness of that, but I would not have expected that with the Spanish at all. I'm really surprised to hear that.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Yeah. Spanish academics, I think are pretty old school though. From what I've heard, you know, word on the street is it's, just one step past the teacher slapping your hand with a ruler in terms of how they teach in this country. So, um, you know, another reason why, like the kid is in Montessori

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

was just about to say you need the Montessori of language schools. That's what you need to find or develop.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

I, yeah, I don't have the brain to develop it. I can tell you that right now.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

The other thing, you know, again, relating this to be being a business owner. The things that we market for right now don't produce fruit until several months or even a year or two later. And then, of course, as an interior designer, once you get your project, it's another year or two before you get photos. There's this really long time period. And I think with language, it's the same way. What we learn now, we will, we obviously will and do suck at right now. And it won't feel good for months, if not a whole nother year. And You have to really kind of allow for that and, and, and focus on, okay. Yeah, but my five year old French, in my case, my five year old French, it is getting better. My teenager French is still yet to be found. Hopefully it's down the road a bit. Cause that's what I'm learning the mechanics of, but it doesn't mean I can use them right.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Yeah. I also go through fits and starts with my ability to be immersive in the experience. And, you know, the other thing my tutor told me yesterday was like, you've got to be reading in Spanish. You have to be listening to the language. This is something that needs to be done every day. And I'll, you know, my ability to be consistent with that has a lot of ebbs and flows. It's very difficult for me to, be consistent with that. I think what derailed me last time is just I had a couple of weeks where I had a pretty insane client load and then there was stuff happening in the States with family that was keeping me up till, you know, 11 o'clock midnight, several nights during the week, and so it was just not happening.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

I don't think it's realistic. And I think this is the thing, you know, maybe if we were, and all we were here doing is learning our languages.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Well, it is realistic if you don't live in a place where you have access to your native tongue.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Yeah,

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

If You're living, if I had been alone and not with my family, living in a little Pueblo, somewhere in the interior, right, in what they call the donut region of Spain, I would one, not have Cotillon that I always have to think about, you know, every time I open my mouth. I'm like. I'm sorry, I'm not speaking your language in the back of my head.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

literally learning two languages at the same time. I mean, that's part of

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Not yet. I am, I am surrounded by one while learning another.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

that's what I mean. Your brain is taking them both in, and you're somehow trying to get good at one while worrying about the other. That's not something to be taken lightly. That's honestly something to commend yourself for.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

The luck of the draw.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Or here, dear listeners, warning, don't choose a place that speaks two languages if you'd like it to be a little easier. Our brains, the thing about being an expat and on top of that, in my case, both of our cases, a business person on top of that, in your case, a mom on top of that, in both of our cases, wives.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Mm hmm.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

You know, it's sort of like how sometimes you, you look at your phone and within three minutes, the whole thing went from 100 percent battery to 20 percent battery. And you're like, how did that happen?

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Oh yeah, that happens in my body

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

That is the regular thing. We get uncharged faster because our batteries are literally, literally draining faster. I'm, I'm, I beat myself up regularly at the beginning of the year. I bought the coolest program that has three minute to five minute short Videos in French, followed by a discussion of what the content was, and a discussion of cultural and vocabulary moments.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

What is it called?

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Uh, it's called 6pm in Paris. And it's amazing, have I touched it in months? No. Instead, we are binge watching things like, uh, the old Star Treks, cause that's gonna help my language, you know, and then Only Murders in the Building, which by the way, totally loving. We need that release. Yes, we could be moving faster, but no, we really can't. We just, we would be miserable and that doesn't, that's not worth it either.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Well, I think you reach, I mean, even if you forced it, you reach a saturation point where it doesn't actually make it better.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

I agree.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

And forcing it is. Oh, a total waste of energy because you simply cannot integrate things faster than you can integrate things.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

I think your brain will even reject it and be like, yo, you thought you could learn. I'm going to show you

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Yeah. don't put a VW bug on a race car track and expect it to perform well. Like it can only go so fast.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

exactly

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

That said, I'm still really irritated.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

the feelings are real. And that's the main thing that I would want our listeners to hear. You can logic your way around it all day, but you can still feel. Like an idiot or completely miserable or super frustrated. That doesn't,

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Yeah, I think if, you know, if I don't pass this class or even if I do, um, I don't think I'll continue at the school because I'm just not, I'm just not finding the emphasis on the structure, the methodology.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

there's gotta be alternatives.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Oh, I know there is. Like, I mean, you know, my tutor is like, ah, you know, nobody was, if he effectively, he effectively said what I just said, which is why I said it. And it's just like, you know, nobody, Spaniards don't know this, right? They're teaching you things like that. People, native speakers don't know This This isn't something that you actually learn. Need to know. In fact, he was like, what's the difference between conditional one and conditional two? And I was like, I don't know, because she didn't tell us. She just seems to expect that we already know this. I don't know where we were supposed to know that from whom, right? Like, how did that even happen? So I had, you know, I just like, I have to go and look it up. Um, but I think, you know, I'd, I'd stick with tutoring or try a different, language learning method because in some ways I feel like it's actually slowing me down because I get tripped up on, you know, is it this or that? What's the name? And okay, that's the name for this. Which tense is that referring to? So it's an extra jump of trying to logic my way through it rather than trying to intuit it. Um,

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

And we've talked about this school before. So you know, you've certainly given it a chance through several different teachers, several different quarters and you know, people listening might be like, yeah, why isn't she just cut and run before a change takes energy and effort to, you have to research options, you need to have time, you need to look at the pricing and can you get to it? And is it convenient? And we were just talking about how we're already, Low on batteries, you know, all of us have held on to employees or housekeepers or spouses and boyfriends that we shouldn't have

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Great,

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

we weren't ready yet for whatever the reasons were

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

great, great. That's a hilarious, uh, that's a hilarious comparison. Oh

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

language school and abusive partner.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

my god. Well, you know, I mean, the first, the first one, Paco is great. Paco is great. Super, you know, super friendly and actually my current teacher is super friendly. She talks a lot. She talks fast. She has been wonderful for getting me acclimated to the speed of a typical Spanish speaker

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

huge.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Absolutely, I mean spending seven to eight hours a week In the classroom with her has absolutely made me a better listener and a better, um, decoder of straight Spanish when they're coming at you hot and heavy with the lingo. So that's been really great. I just, it's just the. You know, the, academic nature of it. Isn't suiting me very well, and I, you know, reserve the right to change my mind about this in 2 months time. But, um, I do feel, I do feel like it's. It's a hindrance because as soon as I know what's going on, I'm doing okay. But the amount of time it takes me to figure out what's going on, the amount of mistakes I make trying to figure out what is going on is, and then, you know, and then the frustration and agitation and anger that I have when I mess everything up because I didn't. interpret what I thought I needed to interpret correctly, miss the boat entirely in some situations. Um, you know, I just, it's deeply frustrating.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Absolutely. And the number of times I resort to English, I did it just yesterday at a museum when I needed to ask some complicated questions and I wouldn't be able to get away with that if I was in a smaller village. And if I were here solo, you know, I've been thinking a lot about, I, let me say that differently. I've met a lot of women who are here solo. Um, and I find that absolutely remarkable. Men too.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

How old are they?

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Most of them seem to be, I would say in their young thirties, But there's a wide variety and I really love it and I've been thinking about it a lot because I think I would feel really lonely if I were here by myself. So I was just about to say if I was doing this by myself, I think I'd want to be in a small village so that it would challenge my language skills and get me there faster. But I also think that it might be even more isolating than a lot of the loneliness I do read about from these women, uh, that they're feeling here in Paris where there's, you know, no end of possibilities to connect with people internationally and in all kinds of ways. It's again, there's no right answers, right? We try to make good decisions. And then we just move forward

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

I mean, at the end of the day, if you're not dead in a ditch, you're doing okay.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

and we aren't look at us thriving. I am going to use this opportunity though, to challenge myself. I think that not watching the 6pm in Paris has sort of become its own habit. I think I've built it into a bigger frog to eat than it is. So I am hereby making a promise. To you and our listeners, but I will have watched one of those silly short films by the next time we record. I will give you a short book report or movie report.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Exciting. I look forward to hearing the cultural and historical aspects of what you learned.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

too! Well, is there anything that, you know, I know that you're the one at the bottom of the roller coaster right now on the language stuff, but is there anything you would like to leave our listeners with?

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

You know, I mean, at the end of the day rate, this too shall pass. It's ultimately not, I've been here before, and unlike last year, I'm not crying, so progress. And I also don't feel like my entire self worth hinges upon it. Last year was hard. Last year was a really hard year for me, actually, you know, with my running, going to shit and, um, God, that was horrible and struggling with the language. It was some. Yeah, it was hard, huh?

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Yeah. And you wrap it all up into one package where you start doubting every decision you've ever made for your whole entire life. And that's fun.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

I didn't go that far. I still feel very secure about my life partner choice and the decision to move here

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Good.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

out of my career. I did a good, I did a good job choosing a career for myself, but you know, I may be volunteering my services. Uh, because I don't want to pay taxes.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

accepted.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Yeah, but I'm sure you'd have to report those donations and they'd be taxed because I'm not a nonprofit. And who knows? Maybe nonprofits in Spain have to pay taxes

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

That would be a whole nother bee's nest to poke at and figure out all the answers for. And that's the thing is, there is no easy, if you're coming to be an expat looking for the easy button.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

That's not a thing. No, no,

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

It's not here. It is not here to be found.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

there's not a Staples in sight. You can't press the easy button, folks. Sorry.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

Well, we hope that you're uplifted by this episode and are super excited to come be an expat.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Come join us. It's more fun over here.

rebecca_2_11-19-2024_133511:

We promise. Now, neither one of us have any regrets and we still encourage you to come join us. And with that, I would say à la prochaine.

la-chingona_2_11-19-2024_043512:

Hasta luego.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Bonjola. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person brave enough to move abroad. See you next time!