Bonjhola
The adventures of two American expat entrepreneurs - Aimee in Spain and Rebecca in France. Follow their adventures setting up new lives in these two countries while running their business, Aimee as a nutritionist at Vibrance Nutrition, hosting the podcast Blasphemous Nutrition, and Rebecca as an Interior Design Business Coach, hosting the podcast Stuff Interior Designers Need To Know.
Bonjhola
EP 60: Shopping Triumphs, Healthcare Hurdles, and Language Woes; Aimee has a mail snafu taking her back to the United States AGAIN! 😩
Where to find Aimee:
- Instagram: @vibrancenutrition
- Nutrition Coaching: vibrancenutrition.com
- Podcast on Nutrition: Blasphemous Nutrition
- Substack on Nomadic Life: NomadicNomMom
Where to find Rebecca:
- Instagram and her life in Paris: @beseriouslyhappy
- Podcast for Interior Design-preneurs: Stuff Interior Designers Need to Know
- Biz Coaching for Interior Designers: seriouslyhappy.com
- Book on Interior Design Psychology: Happy Starts at Home
Welcome to Bonjola, a podcast about two women, Aimee and Rebecca, who each moved from the United States to Europe to become expats, Aimee to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure, encourage you to follow your own move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Bonjola, Rebecca,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Bonjola, Aimee.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:how are you doing?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:You know, um, as I was mentioning to you off air, I feel like my free fall has turned into a trust fall. So I'm feeling on the up and up.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:So it Sounds like the HR department entered your brain and did a little, uh, community exercise in there to get all, you know, the trust fall, the trust fall.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah, I mean, it is a trust fall, like into my own waiting arms. It is very meta. Yeah,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Um, but it's a definite improved feeling compared to I'm just jumping up a high dive and hoping water's at the bottom.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:For sure.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:I think that, um, it's coming from a lot of directions. I've had some shopping successes. We've had some healthcare successes. We've had bank account successes.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Holy crap.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:95 percent of the way to being able to say I hold a French bank account.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Oh my gosh. Massive victory.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah. So like nothing, nothing's actually done. Everything's at about 95%, but that is huge progress.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah. Well, when you're in stasis for so long, those tiny slivers of hope that come from the most incremental of, Notes of progress, like an email, or someone saying something affirmative to you who's in an authoritative position, it just makes so much difference.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:It really does and, and a lot of my experience as an ex pat is step backward, step backward, step backward. And right when you're like, do I have it in me to keep going? The universe throws you a bone and you're like, oh, okay, yeah, all right, I guess I'll keep going.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah, that's totally where I feel like I'm at right now, minus the bone. Like the bone hasn't shown up yet.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:it's right around the corner.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:We'll see.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Well, one of my, um, successes is related to shopping, which is also related to the sales that we've mentioned before on this show, that in Europe, theoretically, there are only sales twice a year. Now that my, I don't know, now that the noise level in my head is reducing a little bit, I just went into Galleries Lafayette, which is a pretty normal department store.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:And I, It's like I could see, I'm like, Oh, I can see the prices of things. I can see how the sales work. I can see the rules of what I'm allowed to touch and not touch. Like it just felt a lot more comfortable than at any other point in the last nine months, there was some shift in me. I mean, obviously the store didn't change and I, I walked out with a pair of boots.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Nice.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:And, you know, some people enjoy shoe shopping. I am not one of those people. So this is a huge coup.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Okay, tell me about the boots.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:They are kitten heeled. So they're about a two inch little heel, which I really like because that feels feminine, but practical,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:a fairly pointy toe, which I wanted this boot to feel a little bit dressed up because I need to wear it on stage, which has been one of the problems with my new lifestyle is how do I balance. The not that often occasions when I need to be on stage and have people see my entire outfit versus zoom, which is my normal life now and my Reality of needing to walk to the metro and stuff in Paris. That's a really hard balance and because we're a moving around so much and be the closets are petite here in Paris. I can't do what I would do in America, which is just have 20 different pairs of shoes, two of which I wear all the time and the rest are worn twice a year. I can't do that. So to have found a pair of boots, like I said, they're, uh, kitten heeled, pointy toed, black, and they are just under the knee. So they'll go great with pants. They'll go great with skirts. I feel like I found my multi purpose boot.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yay! That's fantastic.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:And it's kind of funny. I was looking at some really nice French brands, which I will revisit later. Jonak, J O N A K is a really good one. Um, Carole is another really good one. And there's another one, I think it's called Bocuse. Um, but I'm wandering around looking at these brands on purpose. And I came across of all things, a beautiful pair from Guess.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Oh!
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:And that just made me feel so nostalgic for the 80s, so it was like this extra random little, oh, that's fun.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:whenever I come across a Benetton here, United Colors of Benetton, I'm like oh! Like the, the sixth grader inside of me is so excited.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:All we need now is a little, like, what, spree? A
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Mm, right. Pretty cool. Oh my god.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:that's taking me down a whole memory pain. I've got, uh, memory, memory, memory what? Memory lane, not pain.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:pain. I mean, that's legit.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:But I'm thinking of jellies and swatch watches now.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Oh my god.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:But anyway, back to the point. I have boots. I'm very happy. Damien has a tentative surgery appointment that has to be confirmed, and it's when we wanted, which would be after this quarter, so we can finish out this quarter and then adjust the school schedule. The bank account has taken six different steps and Four different appointments,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:That sounds about right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:I have an IBAN and so does Damien, so we have our own accounts. We have transferred the first deposit, the test deposit, because again, as we've talked about in other episodes, it's so weird to just send money places. So we did the test and I just have to redo one piece of paper because it wouldn't be France if I didn't have at least one more piece of paper between me and the, the finish line.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Awesome.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Oh, so you can hear like I'm obviously kind of bubbling over and I'm finally not sick. That was two weeks of just a really bad cold. I think it might have been the actual flu. So I'm actually feeling optimistic and light and hopeful again. Things are good.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yay. I think that's one of the things that I actually really enjoy about being sick. For me particularly if I have a fever, when the fever breaks there's this surge of energy and invigoration and I feel alive in a way that feels more heightened. Um, and I really, I really appreciate. Um,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:I actually a hundred percent relate to what you're talking about. There's this, it's like the birds sing louder and the unicorns came back to life and yeah, and it doesn't last as long as I wish, but it is a bright, sunny, beautiful feeling. Yeah. So you mentioned that you're kind of feeling a mixed bag. What's, what's in the bag?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:I'm in the middle of the process of potentially failing out of Spanish. We have, exams all this week. They started late last week. and, you know, like last year, it's a total freaking coin toss. I have no idea. I keep doing the homework and think okay, I think I finally got this and then we correct it in class and you're like, oh hell no, no, that's, it's not that tense, it's a completely different tense that you didn't catch and so the entire paper is wrong, you know, just like, god, freaking nonsense, and I'm so over it. Last week, I was studying and I was like, you know what, maybe I should just stop studying and just let myself fail out because I can't, this methodology of theory focused language learning is destroying my will,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:I mean, it's not the first time you've felt this way. There was a brief, like last quarter, you felt a lot more capable, but every other quarter, did you have a different teacher last quarter or do you, can you identify anything that was different?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Well, last quarter, it was reviewing the previous year before starting into the new stuff. Right. So,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:that might mean that this is just the, the normal process.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:well, I mean, my drama is a normal process for me, but
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:and your language drama, me and my underwear drama.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:exactly, exactly, but I do have a backup plan. There is a language school, called Up Idiomas, and on their website, they say they're Based on experiential learning and there's oral presentations and conversations and smaller class size. And I'm like, you know, and this, you know, after I found that, I was like, Oh, let me just fail out of this and switch over to there. And then I, you know, sat down and was like, now. Aimee, if you just throw in the towel and give up like this, you won't ever actually know if you're telling yourself a story that you failed, or if you actually failed, so at least give it an honest try, don't be a douchebag, give it a shot, and give it a shot. You know, if you pass, great. If you don't, you've got a backup that will probably be better for you. Um, so I'm kind of holding, both of those possibilities in my mind. And even considering if I do pass, leaving the school anyway, because it is such a frickin grind.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Well, that's exactly what I was going to ask you. Like, allow yourself to fail or pass and don't put a lot of, you know, weight on the outcome and just plan to shift schools.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah. Yeah. But the thing is,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:to this school, right?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:well, in a year, I couldn't just pick up. But yeah, I would have to wait.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:really structured program
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:It is a very structured program. Yeah. And then I had the thought, well, I could keep going to the school I'm going now and only attend class half the days and the other half days do the class of idiomas and just make it a hybrid. And if I learn better from the second school, then it would translate over to the first school.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:As a way to keep your place in this school if the experiment didn't work.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah, and get the official, nationally recognized certificate of competency, which would be necessary for me to get a job.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:So that's the other thing about this program, is it's certified with the government or
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Exactly.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Aha.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah. Which, honestly, I don't think there's a situation where I'll need that, but it's still nice to have it rather than have to test for it later, you know, kind of get something out of this nonsense. So, there's that, there's, I just am in a really kind of meh sort of mood that has it. Yeah. Been pretty pervasive for the last month, and I found out over the weekend that I need to go back to the States to deal with mailbox shenanigans and papers that need to be signed in person. So, I'm not ready to change residency yet. So I was like, well, I guess I'm going back to the States, but you know, I've been craving dried mango with chili from Trader Joe's. So it's actually a good time.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:You know, it's all about the silver lining, right? We are definitely out of Dayquil now, so my upcoming trip in February to conference is well timed.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yes, exactly. Exactly. And, uh, you know, I've done the, I've done the five weeks abroad. I've done the two weeks abroad and now I'm going to try six days abroad and see how that quick, you know, if I come back to Europe before jet lag is over, what's that like?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:That might work a lot better for you. It's also funny to hear you say the word abroad and mean the other direction across
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Oh yeah, that's funny. That's funny that I chose that because I don't actually feel, I feel very not integrated here at the moment. I feel
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:yet it came out that way.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:yeah, I don't feel like, I don't feel like, uh, I belong anywhere, you know, I don't feel like I'm a part of Spain, I don't feel like I'm a part of Catalunya the US feels like, and this is a, it feels like the devil I know,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Like in a comfortable way?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:um, No, I mean, more like, I know how to deal with that demon.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Okay, like, in a
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:I know, I know what to expect from that demon, you know, both, both politically and socially. It's yeah, but it's also. You know, very deep in my belly gives me a sense of revulsion to have to choose that if I were to choose that, because walking home from Spanish class was like, yeah, if you went back to the United States, you'd spend your entire life in a car again, because there just isn't outside of Manhattan, you don't have this lifestyle in the States.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah, now, you are in a really walkable neighborhood. You're not using public transportation. It's just that it's really walkable, right?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah, very rarely do I use public transportation.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah, I was thinking about that because I was identifying with what you're saying, but for me, it's about the Metro and that public transportation and I'm. Curious if we end up moving to a smaller town in France for his internship. No idea what that will actually mean for us when it comes to the delight that I feel in having public transportation. Well, would we live in a small enough town that it's just as walkable? I imagine that it would be because that is such a European thing.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:yeah. And I mean, if it was a small enough town, you'd likely be able to afford living in a neighborhood where you wouldn't need a car rather than residential neighborhoods outside the center of, you know, wherever.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah. So many things that are unknown and
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:I know.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:it's, it's uncomfortable. It's exciting, but it's very uncomfortable. And I identify with that whole devil, you know, just phrase when we're, there is a comfort and familiarity in something, even when it's bad for you. And even when you want something else, the not knowing how that something else is going to turn out. It's uncomfortable. And. You never are quite sure if you're going to scurry back to the safety of something you don't actually like or if you're going to stay brave enough to stay at something that you want to work out.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:My personality is one that I never scurry back to something that I don't like.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:That's good.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:and maybe, maybe that's what's going on is that. Yeah. The uncertainty, there are many things, many aspects of uncertainty that have not abated, and I'm just tired of it. I'm tired of rolling over the same questions over and over again, like if we were to purchase a property here, and now I'm rethinking that entirely because. Again, if we were, if we're not planning on retiring her, buying a property doesn't actually make much sense because if we didn't stay in Spain, capital gains tax on selling the property and taking that money outside of the country would be so high. That we might even lose money if it wasn't, you know, a property you had for 15 years or whatever
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah. Yeah.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:and really until we decide to pursue and ascertain permanent residency in this country doesn't make sense to buy property because there's no investment incentive to do it.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:That the struggle to make choices in this lifestyle is a really interesting one because, you know, unlike people. In a war zone who are living with uncertainty, but they didn't choose it for themselves. Obviously
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:we upset the apple cart of our lives on purpose. And we're supposed to be being intentional and making choices. And yet we have chosen a life of uncertainty and somehow expect ourselves to still make choices within this new world. Sometimes I question myself. I'm like, other people would give anything to have a more stable Comfortable life. And I walked away from one. Sometimes I feel a little insane for that, but then I remember how the healthcare is in the United States. And then I'm like, Oh yeah, nope, I wasn't insane. I was actually just really smart and brave.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:And some, honestly, some personalities don't do well with routine stability. It gets boring.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:My husband is like that. I mean, that's a big driver behind, especially us moving so often and what he's hoping happens over the next five years.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:For me, it's, I mean, I, Oh, I crave routine. I love routine. One of my favorite phases of my life was when I was in ROTC in college
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:I cannot believe you are in ROTC.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Oh yeah, it suited me. I'm a little rule follower. And The best part was the uniform. I didn't have to think about what to wear.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Oh my god.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:So.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:no, I can see you now that I think about it. I can absolutely see you in a ROTC uniform in formation. Oh my god. That is crazy. Stuff.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah, and it was an Air Force ROTC and I would have made an excellent officer. It would have been a natural fit for my personality. I don't think it would have necessarily been a healthy fit because it would have reinforced a lot of, um,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Things you're trying to unlearn in your 40s.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:stick up the butt tendencies that I have. But, yeah, I loved the routine. The reason I'm doing this, aside from supporting Damien, which is part of it, but it can't be all of it. You can't, you know, put all your choices on somebody else's shoulders. I really did choose this for myself because I want to stretch myself. I don't want to stay in a comfortable zone and then look back and be like, what did I allow myself to miss out on? Because I just was comfortable,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:even though I really want routine.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what I want right now.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:That makes it hard.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:It does. It does. Cause yeah, there's no, I felt this way, but worse, much worse about a year and a half or so after my son was born a year, year and a half. And I didn't really know what, like, what I wanted to do with my career. Um. what I really wanted to do with my life in a very big existential sense. And I kind of feel on the cusp of that again, but I do enjoy the work that I do. I feel good about the work that I'm doing. So thankfully, You know, I feel like work isn't a really good place for me right now. Um, so I don't have that eating away at my identity. Um, but most other things, I am just kind of like floating in space and not really like, there's no wind, there's no gravity. I'm just kind of like spinning whatever that God awful movie was that was created about the woman who like got lost and not lost
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Sandra Bullock's
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah. yeah. I just, I heard the premise and I was like, that sounds like my worst nightmare. No, thank you. I'm not even going to look at the preview.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:When I, when I work with clients, I describe this, um, as the doldrums, which is when you're in a sailboat and there's no wind and you, you're in a sailboat, so you can't cross the ocean with motor. There is no motor to cross. And you know, that, that time between the islands, the islands being where you're certain about what you're doing. I think the only thing we can do is settle into it, into the journey. This part is about the journey. You're not at a destination right now and it is, it is uncomfortable. I don't know anybody who actually enjoys the in between phases.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah, I think of it as treading water. You know, there's, there's sometimes when you're going in a direction and sometimes where you're just treading water. Either because you're too tired to swim in the direction that you want to go, or you're not really clear about next steps to take. Yeah. Um, but I just, I'm just, I'm tired. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Well, and you've been in a position where you had made this huge decision to move your whole family to Spain, and then you've been pulled back to the States a lot more than I think you expected.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:totally.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:yeah, it's like you're trying to keep moving in one direction, but you're being sucked backwards by a black hole.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:There is that. That's a good point. I mean,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:that is exhausting.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah, yeah, and I will say that aspect of all of this has definitely made it much harder to feel like I could settle here.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:That absolutely makes sense. And I don't think anybody would blame you for feeling the way you're feeling right now. Are you finding, we haven't really talked about your social life there in a really long time. Are you finding that you're making local friends, in person friends, people that you can connect with there?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:I do, yeah, I do have local friends and, One of the things that happens when I get like this is I, I retreat, I pull back, and I get quiet. So I definitely haven't been as social. I haven't had, A lot of energy or interest in, in leaving the house. It's very similar to like the early stages of moving here where you feel like you can't deal with the outside world. I don't feel like that right now, but you know, my behavior appears very similar, even though it's for a different reason. I just am not, it's freaking cold. I don't want to be outside in the cold. I'm done with that, like, give me some moderate temperature, please. You know, I say that, and oftentimes it's warmer outside than it is in this apartment because Spanish pisos are made of tile and stone, and they're frickin refrigerators in the winter.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah, and if they're anything like these places in Paris, they just leak any heat that you try to put into
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yes.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:at the same time.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Right. Yeah, Yeah. So,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:is it in Girona right now?
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:um, it's still, it's below freezing in the morning and has.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:in Paris.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah, has been for over a week now. And it's really funny because right before this cold snap came, it was, like 40 to 65 degrees Fahrenheit. We, it was like, Oh my God, spring's coming early. It's January. It's so warm out.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Just
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:it was like, Just This was a little, I was like, this is a little weird. I don't know how I feel about this. Cause it's pretty early. And then, then I was like, Oh yeah, well here,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Careful what you ask
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:careful what you ask for. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, Oh, forget it. No, I'm ready for the spring.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Well, that's a really good State of the Union.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Tell me about Damien's surgery scheduling. Like, it sounds like the whole process of medical care in France, once you're established in the system, is really efficient and easy.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Obviously this is going off of one experience, you know, so we, we don't want to generalize yet. But this experience has been remarkably easy and it does parallel every story we have been told by people. Just yesterday I was talking to somebody about Damien's experience and she's like, oh yeah, My, when my sister was here and she came, I think she broke her arm. She went to the emergency room. They said, they patched her up. They said, we'll send you an invoice, which terrified her being an American. Sent the invoice. It was all of 200 euro.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Wow.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah. It's just over and over again. This seems to be proved to be true. So I know the stumbling blocks are. Obviously the application process and having an address to get that done with and then the French because the CPAM office they expect you to speak French when Damien went to the So he went to an MRI appointment and then two days later he went to the doctor's appointment to confirm that he would in fact need surgery and then plan the surgery
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Was his his suspicion spot on? Is it?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:100%. Yes, he self diagnosed perfectly. Um, so in his right arm when he had done it, he ripped three tendons. I think there only are three or something like that. And this time he only ripped two. So he has less of an injury, but it is exactly the same injury. he found the receptionist person at the clinic to be very rude and abrupt. But that could be true in any language, in any country, and in any scenario. So I don't think that it's a reflection on the healthcare system. Everything else has been easy and straightforward. I, as I understand it, the numbers are as follows. In the United States, when he had his right arm done, I believe the total bill was about 60, 000.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:What year was that?
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Maybe four years ago, it's relatively recent, and he had to pay out of pocket a 6, 000 deductible. The numbers this time seem to be that if he had to pay for the whole surgery, it would be 8, 000 euro, which is barely more than his deductible was, and he's probably going to end up paying A couple hundred because we don't have a mutual. So the way it works in France is everybody has access to the social health care system, which covers most of the costs. But most French people choose to have a mutual, which tops off any additional fees. Like, if you choose to have a doctor who you go to directly without a referral and stuff like
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:right, right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:So there's a couple different levels. So obviously he does not have a mutual right now, so that will be the part that he has to pay, which again is a laughably small amount compared to the deductible in the United States. It's more like a co pay basically.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah, that's amazing.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:It still feels surreal. It still feels like a typo that they're going to call you and say, Oh, we're sorry. We forgot to put two zeros on this invoice. That's how it feels.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:This is very literally the alternate universe.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah. It is. It's weird. Like you pinch yourself,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:but we remember that you do give up, you know, it's trade, it's trade offs. You are paying. Well, Damien and I talk about this all the time. On the face of it, you're paying more taxes for that service, but you're really not. Because, you know, in the States, just two tiny examples, let's say I'm in the 35 percent tax bracket. That's 35 percent right there.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:And then every time I buy anything, I'm paying 10 percent more
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:For sales tax.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:that I was already taxed on. So, you know, it's not exact math, but that's 45%, you know.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Right.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:It's just not as different as the media would have you believe when they're talking about socialized healthcare, and all the, you know, The way they, I'm just not going to go into it, but they paint it to be something that's going to leave you poorer. And it is the opposite. This system leaves you wealthier, maybe not in your bank account, but in terms of your life and your stress levels and your actual physical health,
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yes.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:you're wealthier.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:The things that matter in The
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:things that actually matter, because who cares how big your pile of money is if you're not healthy.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah. That said there's you know with Worldwide now it seems there's this issue with rising cost of housing and Natives in any country not being able to afford housing,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Including our own.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Yeah. Yeah. Which, yeah, exactly. That's what I was going to say. It's not unique to the United States. It's a huge, huge problem here in Spain as well. There is something to be said in terms of economic mobility and the ability for someone who wants to get ahead to be able to do so being an important piece of quality of life that I think is not as well appreciated or. Available here in Europe,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah, but I think we have to be careful about defining getting ahead. yes, that could mean social mobility. It could be physical mobility in terms of where you want to live. It could be physical mobility. Mm hmm. wealth status changing, all these things, but getting ahead could also be living a long life and being healthy. Like, what are
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:No, that's just a basic human right. That's not getting ahead. That should be the baseline.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Well, I guess what I'm saying is, in order to get ahead in the United States way of doing it, we have had to give up what you're calling the baseline.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:I'm not saying that's acceptable at all. I just think about how, the more I learn about Spain and how the taxes, particularly in this region, are run and how It is such a disincentive to do something like start a business,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah. No, that's absolutely true. And, you know, I was just, I talked, I had the most wonderful, let me back that up. I got to tell you something really cool that happened. So this is just a marketing win. I wrote an article on medium about the fact that I wasn't a sustainable designer. I posted on LinkedIn, this, um, gentleman who teaches at a very elite business school here in Paris. Did a LinkedIn request and I was like, who is this? I would like to know this person. It connected with them. He and I ended up having an hour and a half long conversation yesterday at the business school. And it was absolutely so much fun.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:in French, in English.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:It was in English. They mostly teach in English cause it's a very international school. A lot of, uh, international students, but we were talking about the wars, right? We got World War I, World War II, completely decimates Europe and is a complete boost to the United States. We were the manufacturers. We were supplying practically everything.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:Mm hmm.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:And so. Europe is right now well, I mean, first they had to create stability again. They had to create economic engines again. So the fact that they're at where they're at right now in terms of entrepreneurship and. Self development, which is a lot more of an individualistic thing, makes sense to me, because I feel like they all had to come together and hold each other's hand and be like, let's recover from this massive war that happened to us.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:That's a good point. And I know Spain, as well as like coming out of, you know, is still relatively fresh, just 50 years since Franco died, and coming out of fascism where the state takes care of everything.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yep.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:yeah, yeah,
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Cause I mean your, your point that they, they do not support or promote or give wings to entrepreneurship is absolutely true.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:it's worse than that. If they just didn't get in the way, that would be one thing. But it's like they're actively penalizing people who are creative and want to do their own thing. Like here in Spain when you set up as an independent or start a business, you have to pay the government even if you don't make money. For the privilege, for the, I don't know, because you exist, you have to, and so you can get into debt super easy. And here, in town. We haven't been here even two years yet, and I have, we have seen so many businesses come and go. There's this one spot on a main street, very well populated street, there have been two restaurants In the time that we've been here that have opened and closed and the space right next to the restaurant was a baby clothing store and there they didn't, they're gone and it was right around December, everybody like lots of lots of businesses shut down. And I think it's because they have to pay they have to pay their taxes in January. So everybody closed their doors at the end of December. And there's all this empty space. It's like, oh, this is who didn't make it this year.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:That's really interesting.
la-chingona_1_01-21-2025_040459:there's, it's like, I, and I see this happening, I'm like, I don't want to, maybe that's why I don't know what the hell to do with my life, because I'm not incentivized to participate in the Spanish economy as an independent person, and I'm not eligible to work for Spain.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Yeah, that, that all makes sense and mostly aligns with what I've seen in Paris. The one difference, which won't help us at all, um, but the one difference I've learned about is that there's a, a little bit like our unemployment in the United States. They apparently can access a version of social support after leaving a corporate job. If your boss agrees. Which be basically because they had to let you go or you're getting fired for some reason, but apparently people game this a little bit with their employers. but they can get up to 18 months of support and make about half of what they were making. And so like there's a gal that I just went to the home show here with Maison Objet. She has been working as an architect for like 15 years. She's finally ready to go out on her own. And so she has this. unemployment benefit, and that's the money she's using to get herself set up in her new business. So that's a common leap forward, apparently, that people do here. Yeah, same thing here. It's also why it can be so hard to get a job. Um, another person I was talking to recently said that they've been working contract positions for forever. Because getting a tenured position with a company is tough because it's so hard to fire people that the employers get really gun shy about making that commitment, you know? So they're trying to protect the employees by making it harder to get fired. But that actually in turn makes it harder for them to get a job in the first place. Yeah. And I think that's also part of why there's a lot less change because you get your job. And you're like, I've got my job. I'm keeping my job. Same thing with apartments. It can be really hard to get an apartment, especially as a foreigner, but even not, but you can't be kicked out in the winter. You are protected in the winter months. They cannot kick you out, even if you stop paying rent, which is why landlords are a little bit anxious about renting to people who might take advantage of that.
Hey friends, Rebecca here, jumping into this conversation, because right at this point Amy's microphone completely dropped out, and we have no idea why. We also have no idea where that deep thought was leading, but after this, Amy asked me if there was anything exciting on the agenda, and this is what I said about the coming week.
rebecca_1_01-21-2025_130405:Um, so there's two things that are happening this week. The first one is that I am going to go to a hammam. With a new friend. hammam is a Spa, but let me look up and see what it officially means so officially a hamam, often called a Turkish bath by Westerners, is a steam bath or a place of public bathing associated with the Islamic world. So that's the official definition, and we discovered Cordoba, Spain, which was a leftover from when the Moors were in charge of Spain and that one in Cordoba, oh my gosh, it's so beautiful. I have no idea what to expect in this one, but it is part of a The Grand Mosque here in Paris it's for women only and that's pretty much all I know. Apparently, it's going to be bottoms on, top off, is my impression. I'm trying to, you know, scope out the rules before I go. So that's Thursday, and then on Saturday, we're going to go to a speakeasy that we have visited once before called the Moonshiner. So we'll be getting all dolled up in our 1920s outfits and having fancy cocktails. And this is the one that you enter by going through a pizza shop through the freezer door into the hidden speakeasy.
And Rebecca back. So after that Amy told us all about the fact that she's kind of in the doldrums with her Spanish. She's not quite sure if she's actually going to pass her Spanish class or if she's going to stick with this program. You know, the usual up and down that we keep having with our language skills by choosing these adventures. We also talk about some of the logistical challenges that come along with things like trying to get a driver's license, and Amy promises to tell us more about that in a future episode. I think that about sums up the most important parts, and hopefully we won't lose our microphones next time. Thank you for remembering that we're just two humans trying to record a podcast. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Bonjola. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person brave enough to move abroad. See you next time!