Bonjhola

EP 62: Rebecca's Hammam Experience, Geeking Out on Star Trek, and Marriage Advice 😀

• Rebecca West

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Welcome to Bonjola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each moved from the United States to Europe to become expats, Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure, encourage you to follow your own move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Angela, Rebecca,

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

Angela, Amy.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

tell me all about your spa experience.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

Yes, so this is my second spa experience in Paris. The first time I went to more of a Thai spa and it was lovely and immersive and if anybody's looking for that, it was the Ban Thai spa in the Marais district. But this was completely different. This was a hammam. My first experience with hammam was in Spain, in Córdoba, and it does come from a Muslim Islam tradition. So think, you know, the sun and the moon and stars motifs, those very Islamic motifs, mosaic tile, gorgeousness, right? So that's the vibe. So I had learned that there was a hammam here. In Paris, that's associated with the grand mosque, and it's not anything, uh, like commercial feeling. It's just a Turkish bath for women to go enjoy.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

And you need not be Muslim to enjoy it.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

absolutely not. It is open to everybody. So because of my really great Hamam experience in Cordoba, I was really excited to try it. I met a gal on Facebook who did it. Was willing to be my buddy. She'd gone before

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Wait, wait, wait, wait. How do you, how do you meet someone on Facebook that you then decide to go to an all ladies naked spa with?

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

and actually remember if she posted something or I posted something, we were talking about that. We can't remember, but there is a really great group, uh, expat group here, um, called it's not even expat, but it's called women living in Paris. And it's a really great group where women share. And answer questions that women might have that aren't just related to being a woman, but the group is for women. So either she posted something about, Hey, I want to do this. Does anybody want to join? Or I saw a comment, you know, something about spas. This was way back in November and we had some trouble connecting because of the holidays. And then I got sick and then she got sick and dadada. But here we are. We finally connected and she was my buddy. So that's how that happened. Yeah.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Okay. And is she Parisian? Is she?

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

She's British. And she has lived in Paris for five or seven years and came here for love and is engaged to that person. And they'll be getting married this fall. So it's a happy story because a lot of people come here for love and then find that they are going to follow a different path.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Right.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

okay. So here's the experience, um, you're going to go to, I mean, you can literally just put it into Google maps and it takes you right to the right spot. And there's a door that is going into kind of the side of this grand mosque building, and there's a cart, kind of like a pastry cart with treats and stuff right inside of this entrance. And then just to the left of that is a wooden door and a sign that says, That feels permanent, but it doesn't feel noticeable. Kind of like if you were in a restaurant and you're looking for the sign for the toilets. The sign will be professional and permanent, but it's not like, The toilets are this way!

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Right.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

So, says Hamam, has an arrow, go through a door. And then there are people who speak French, and not English. So be forewarned that this is a great place to have a buddy. So they speak French. They're asking you what you want to basically order. And I said to my friend, I will, I'm just following your lead. I will literally do whatever you do. So she got time in the spa. which is the Hamam. So basically, Hamam means steam room. Loosely translated, it usually means steam room. And so she got thyme in the Hamam, thyme, uh, with a, oh, a body scrub, which is called a gommage in French, gommage. hot oil massage.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Ooh, that sounds awesome.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

So then they give you this little baggie and in that baggie is a scrubby glove. They will be using on you. Some black soap, which sort of squeezes out like really thick honey, I think that's it. They have lockers. You put your stuff in the lockers. And the general etiquette is bikini bottoms on no top. I think obviously you could walk around. With the top on I might have seen one or two people doing that, but almost everybody was just boobs out and it is female only as I said, um, it's very steamy and I didn't have my glasses on. So, at this point, the world gets a little vague, but I was following my buddy's lead. And what we did is we went in to the steam room area and we laid on these stone. Slabs, which are heated from underneath. So they're nice and toasty. And then you're slathering that black soap on you and you let that sit for about 10 minutes

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Do you know what's in it?

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

No idea.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

I'm assuming charcoal because spa and black stuff that you slather on your skin, but I thought it

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

I'm assuming. It's kind of meant to, I guess, draw out the toxins or soften your skin or I don't know. I didn't ask many questions. All right. So then, um, You can go towards the gommage area where they will then take the mitt that you had for your personal mitt, and you lay yourself down on a yoga mat that they clean between uses, and then they scrub the crap out of you.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Yeah.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

And, uh, you definitely lose about eight layers of skin.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Mm hmm. I've had that experience at the Korean spa and it's amazing how much dead skin they pull off of you.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

It's nasty

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Yeah.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

and they're not in this case, at least they're not hosing you down or rinsing you down. They're just letting all that dead skin just kind of pile up all over you. It's really disgusting. Then they tell you you're done. Um, and so again, they only spoke French, but especially once you're past the purchasing charades work great. You know, I was able to say, um, excuse me, you know, blah. And then she just. Signal that I figured out what I was supposed to do.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Now, are these, are these, do you have specific times that you're supposed to go from one station to the next or is it just when you're ready and you feel like steamed out then, you know, transition and the next available person will take care of you and scrub you down? Is that sort of?

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

Yeah. It's definitely loose. Like the second one I asked my buddy, like, how does it work? Are they going to come get us? And she's like, no, they're not going to do any work. They don't have to do. It's a very, but

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

darling.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

when you're ready to stand up and go to that area and it's a bit like a conveyor belt, they're like, okay, you're up next layer lay on this one, because there's a couple of different stations. Um, so it's not like. When I went to the Bantai spa, it's very immersive. It's very soothing. It's, it's like, you know, the Calgon take me away experience for those of a certain age. This is much more, um, health spa. We are here to improve your circulatory system, you know, kind of like that. Um, so after they say you're done, then you get up and you go and rinse all that off and then you can go spend more time in the Hamam. Steaming or you can go into the dry area onto the mats and they will bring you sweet green tea.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Ooh.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

There's also a fountain right in the middle of the room where you can just grab a glass and then fill it. It's actually potable water coming from this very fancy fountain, which is cool.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

That is cool.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

And that room is really, it's as beautiful as you would want it to be being as part of a mosque with the multicolored tiles and the carved wood columns. And, you know, everything is what you make of it. Like I said, the door to this was sort of like a glorified gym room, if that was from another century. And you're laying on what kind of are like gym mats, because it is just a community health spa. You know, it's a bath. Um, and when we decided we were done, we were done. We went back to our lockers, grabbed our stuff and, Oh, I forgot about this massage.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Oh yeah.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

I forgot to put important details, so I don't know why, but they did come and say, would you like your massage? So I don't know if they were just sitting around with nothing to do and they decided to see who was still wearing their bracelet and get them done or what, but they came and got us for the massage. And that was the other thing I wanted to mention is. In the little baggie are, like, basically stretchy hair ties with tags on them that say what you purchased.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Got it.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

I went to get my scrub, they took the little scrubby tag, and when I was getting my massage, they took the massagey tag.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Nice. Okay.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

Again, aiding with the lack of language skills.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Fantastic. Two thumbs up. Great idea.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

massage was basically just a warm oil treatment. This is not a Thai massage. They are not getting into your muscles. It's what I call a fluff and buff. Um, but it's very soothing and very calming. It's just not my favorite kind of massage. So obviously it's about what you're looking for in terms of what you're paying. But all said and done, it was 70 euro. We were there for three hours and it was fantastic. Highly recommend. Would do it again.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Awesome. Do you plan on going back with this friend of yours?

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

Yes. We're going back in two months.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Oh my gosh, you've already made plans. Of course you have your Rebecca.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

Well, and she was up for it. She, she was very easy to talk to. We had a lot in common. I asked her if she likes Star Trek and it was an instant and enthusiastic. Yes.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Wow.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

Sometimes you just hit it off with people,

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Now, original, next generation?

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

the whole, the whole, all of it.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

All of it, all even Deep Space Nine.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

which by the way, I hate it. We just finished watching it. I'd never seen it for that one. Okay. I'm not surprised that I hated it because. I can't imagine living on an island, like, I feel so trapped. Whereas all of the other ones are about exploring. Deep Space Nine is all on one play. Why would I watch that? It's just a stupid sitcom drama in space instead of an exploration story.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

interesting. Yeah, I never got into Deep Space Nine, so I didn't give myself an opportunity to be disappointed.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

You weren't missing anything,

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

That's, I mean, that's the universal consensus worldwide, is like, don't bother, so.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

but I'd also never watched Voyager. And I do definitely now have a crush on Janeway. She is such an amazing boss. But what I got to tell my new friend about was Picard. Have you watched it?

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

We watched a little bit of it before we left the States,, the first season, and, You know, it's, we were both, Shane and I were both like, well, you really, it's not fair to judge a series by their first season, but it, I felt, I was super, super, super, super, super disappointed with the amount of violence. Because it was so above and beyond what any other Star Trek series had done. And they were being, you know, just flashy, and a little too gratuitous, and a little too, like, looking for opportunities to be violent. I'm just like, ugh, God, if I wanted this shit, pardon my language, guys, I would just go to a movie theater and watch an action film. I don't, Picard is not, that's not, no, no, that would, no. So that was super disappointing to me. There were elements of it I liked, but, but honestly, the most exciting part was just seeing visits from the TNG crew, which doesn't bode well for the future of Picard, if that's what has to carry the show. So we saw, you know, yeah, there's a new season. We talked about it, but neither of us are super excited to dive into the second season. Yeah.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

entirely opposite response to it. I thought the treatment of the continuation of the Borg story was really, really well written and really interestingly handled. And it hit. All the nostalgia marks that I needed and just fed my little, you know, 80s souls. I loved that for it. You know, we had to subscribe to Paramount just to watch it. And I would say it was worth it. will I re subscribe to watch season two? I don't know. Because I actually found season one to satisfy a lot of what I needed when it came to the Borg. Because so many of the old Well, I love Star Trek so often the villains are treated as so one note

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Yeah.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

and one of the things I struggle with being human is the fact that we are all having such a universal experience and yet we all feel so alone and I feel like if, if we could just have a Vulcan mind meld or like a week as the Borg, we'd all be like, Oh, we're all the same. And I think that could benefit us. The problem is the Borg won't let you out of the cult once you're in it.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

And all they want to do is amass more.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

I know.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

So, I mean, that's proof in the pudding right there that even if you get to experience the collective knowledge and feelings of others, It doesn't turn you into a peace loving being.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

know, that's true. No, that's true. I mean, and it's all utopian thinking anyway, because there's no one way to solve for everything, but it's an interesting thought experiment

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

There are multiple billionaires right now looking for ways to solve everything, and I'm sure like brain chips or something creepy like that is on their to do list.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

if it's not already happening as we speak. There are secrets we don't know about and we're probably glad we don't.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

And on that dystopian note,

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

Well, I will end with piece of very happy news, um, which is that I do officially have a French bank account.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

bravo, that's so fantastic. How does it, how does it feel?

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

It feels very, it feels very official. It feels, honestly, it feels like a bigger milestone than it needs to.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Well, it took so long for it to happen, of course.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

and to be fair to the French, it actually wasn't that long of a process because it was interrupted, by the holidays and me being in Portugal for three weeks.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Mm.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

So in the end it was four total meetings and the person at the, BNP, which is the bank was phenomenal. Absolutely, really, really great. so, if there are any expats out there who are living in France, Paris specifically, and you need a bank account, let me know because I am happy to share her information with you so that you can skip at least one of the unnecessary appointments that I had to go through. We're here to help, guys, in tiny little steps.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Oh, one more question, I'm curious, how does, how does the process of Damien's healing go, how is all of that, how is school for him right now, like how is he managing that, even though it's his not dominant arm that's injured, and is there any updates on the medical front?

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

That's an interesting question. So, school's actually going just fine. he can't, what he can't do is he can't lift his arm above his shoulder level. of the mechanisms for that. But in fact, that's not something he has to do in cooking very often. Cooking is a lot more back muscles and bicep triceps. So he's doing fine. I suspect it's a little sore than he lets on because the man is a beast. You know, he's just, he's always been so physical that he just kind of ignores pain.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Yeah.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

The doctor had said, it's not really going to make a difference waiting or doing it immediately. So. It's all fine. The reason it's an interesting question is because I don't have clear answers for you because my husband is a husband. As many wives have found, husbands make terrible administrative assistance. And I think, I think he has some paperwork he has to fill out in order to get the appointment. And I think he hasn't filled out that paperwork.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Oh dear.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

don't exactly know, and he doesn't seem that concerned about it. So I assume he will get it done because he's a grown up. And it's not my job to mother him, even though my brain's over here going, uh, Hey, honey, stay tuned.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

I, I think that is an incredibly healthy boundary that you have with your husband.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

You know, I try and we are really good about actually saying to each other, can you help me get this thing done? Just earlier with something he did say to me, can you help me remember to do this? Or, like, when we went to go get him some custom suits made, he said, I want you to come with me. I want you to help me make choices. So I try to be really aware of when he wants me to be all wifey, and if he doesn't, to try and back off.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Yeah.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

It's not always easy, but I'm not his mom. I'm his wife.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Exactly. Exactly. And that's like a super important distinction that I think, well, in my first marriage anyway, not keeping that distinction, ended the marriage. I mean, it's, it's, yeah, it was a big problem, but we were not, uh, I didn't have good boundaries. He wasn't ready to be an adult, so it didn't work out.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

And it can kind of snowball because what I usually see happen is that the person who is doing the nagging gets tired of being the mom and being responsible for everything, even though they kind of took on that role themselves, the person being nagged gets tired of being treated like a child, even though they weren't stepping up to be responsible for themselves. And then everybody is mad at everybody else for doing the thing that everybody kind of agreed was going to happen. In the beginning,

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Ugh. I couldn't have said that better.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

but I think about it a lot because. In the work that I do with my clients, interior designers create their own monster clients. I use the analogy of relationships all the time. Within the first like three weeks of dating somebody, who's going to be like sleeping on the left side of the bed and who's responsible for letting the dog out when it barks is already established and you didn't even realize it was happening. And the same thing happens with our clients. It's like, Oh, it's fine. you know, I didn't make them answer me back quickly or pay that invoice on time. I don't want to upset them yet because this relationship is still new. Well, guess what? You just created a monster client just like in a monster relationship.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Totally. We teach people how to treat us all the time.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

So again, perfectly said. Alright, well, take some life lessons, home from that, you guys. I'm sure there were some gems in there. Some marriage lessons.

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Big takeaway, don't bother watching Deep Space Nine.

rebecca_2_01-28-2025_141442:

But do consider Picard. And on that note, à la prochaine!

aimee-guest651_2_01-28-2025_051442:

Hasta pronto.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Bonjola. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person brave enough to move abroad. See you next time!