Bonjhola

EP 72: Aimee Shares Her Dental Visit in Spain and We Gnash Our Teeth Over Foreign Medical Tasks

• Rebecca West

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Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each move from the United States to Europe to become expats. Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure. Encourage you to follow your own, move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

Rebecca:

Amy.

Aimee:

Jola, Rebecca.

Rebecca:

So when you and I were off the air, you told me that You got to experience dental treatment in Spain, and I know, I wanna know what that was like. So

Aimee:

Yes. Yeah, I overcame one of my biggest, uh, you know, the whole like, medical thing, any of it. As we've been here almost two years and it's still a huge, big scary boogeyman in the shadows. however, I had gotten a recommendation from a friend about a holistic minded dental clinic that was actually here in town in Gerona and only about, half a mile away from where we live.

Rebecca:

Awesome.

Aimee:

So I was like, yay. And I sent them an email saying, Hey, I need to make a dental appointment. If anybody there speaks English, that would be awesome. And they responded in broken English and I was like, okay, there are possibilities. This is great. Made an appointment with them. For a month out,'cause that's kind of what the weight was. And last week I went in for an exam. An initial exam, and we did a mixture of English and Spanish.'cause I wanted to be using my Spanish. But obviously with dentistry there comes lingo that you don't know. So. One thing that I thought was cool is that they refer to baby teeth as milk teeth here, which I know I've heard that term before, but it had completely been, you know, it'd been out of my memory for so long. I thought that was really kind of charming. Maybe it's just British English, and that's why I find it charming.

Rebecca:

Maybe, I mean, I've definitely, I, I'm aware of the phrase, but I've definitely never used it

Aimee:

Right. It's one of those things that we just don't use.

Rebecca:

sounds almost animalistic or vampiric because it's not in our lingo.

Aimee:

Vampires totally have milk teeth,

Rebecca:

Well, it's before their blood teeth come in.

Aimee:

right?

Rebecca:

That's why you don't have to be afraid of baby vampires.

Aimee:

Yeah. Can't say I've ever met one.

Rebecca:

Okay. Well, so set the stage for us a little bit, like was it an American style clinic? Were there receptionists? What was it like going in with, did it just feel like you were in an American clinic or did it feel a little bit different?

Aimee:

I mean, it totally felt like any other medical clinic. I, you go in, there's a receptionist, the receptionist asks for your name. I actually did not have. Much paperwork to fill out, less than I was expecting. And I did ask, you know, was there anything I needed to bring to the appointment? And they said, you know, only x-rays if you've had them within the last year, which obviously haven't. So I sat down and then they called me back. And the first thing they did was, was take x-rays because it had been, you know, a hot minute since anything had been done. And they've used those little bite wing x-rays that we used to do, you know, when you're a kid and they all like cut into your cheek and stuff. that's what she used and,, then she took a, took a look at my mouth and. Told me that even though I hadn't had a, an exam in two years, that my hygiene looked great, my everything looked great. And I was like, oh, that's awesome. That's really good to hear.'cause I. I feel, I feel like I have fur growing on my teeth midday. So it's really good to hear that just by, you know, feeling like my mouth isn't that clean, that it's all looking pretty good.

Rebecca:

Yeah, because it's one thing to go have your teeth checked. It's another thing to have to go through pro teeth procedures in our own country or in another country, but obviously in another country. It really levels up the fear.

Aimee:

A hundred percent. Yeah. And then she was asking me what my goals were. Like what are your goals for dentistry? What are you looking to do? And my mouth is special. Um, I have a couple implants I need, I have, I. Three baby teeth remaining from, or milk teeth as they are called. I do, I do.

Rebecca:

I didn't even know adults could have leftover teeth from when we were kids.

Aimee:

Well, evidently, if you don't have an adult bud when you're born, there's nothing to push that baby tooth out. I, and what's happened over time is those teeth have fused to my jaw. So, um, so they're there. One of them is cracked, but it's been cracked since 2020. And it's a little wiggly, but it's not like it's not falling out, which is kind of crazy. And she asked me if I wanted to preserve my milk teeth, and I was like, yeah, I'd really rather not. Like I already have, I already need a couple of implants already. I don't wanna rip out three more teeth and do three more implants for strictly cosmetic reasons. That seems really stupid.

Rebecca:

Yeah, I feel like original equipment is always your best option if it's an option at all.

Aimee:

Plus at this point, these babies are straight up. Antiques and they are gonna be worth a lot of money. People are gonna be robbing my grave to get ahold of my milk teeth when I finally go

Rebecca:

You'll be the next um, relic on a Santiago style walk to go see Amy's teeth.

Aimee:

A hundred percent yes you can. You can take my milk sheath and drop them off somewhere as part of your pilgrimage.

Rebecca:

I'll be sure to put that on my to-do list for when you die.

Aimee:

Awesome.

Rebecca:

So, I mean, honestly, it was interesting to me that she asked you your goals for dentistry. I'm not sure I've ever been asked that by anybody.

Aimee:

Yeah, I thought it was a pretty cool question. Yeah, and maybe it's, maybe it's because it is a holistic dental,

Rebecca:

fair.

Aimee:

a holistic dental center, which means if you've never been to one, they use ozone when doing treatments to disinfect the area and, reduce the risk of infection if you're getting something like, I don't know if they do root canals, but you know, any need like. Dental procedure, ozone is typically used.

Rebecca:

As opposed to.

Aimee:

as opposed to, I don't know, I've only used holistic dentists for the last 15 years, so I don't know it's typical anymore. This clinic also uses essential oils. Tea tree and lemongrass I think were used when I did get my cleaning based on the aroma and taste that I was getting. but it was put in some kind of. carrier and then applied to my gums after my teeth were cleaned, which I thought was interesting. So the initial exam was done by somebody who was bilingual. And then, you know, I said, well, I need, I want my teeth cleaned. One of my goals is to get my teeth cleaned because in my mind they're a hot mess'cause they haven't been touched in two years. And then I'd like to look at getting these implants done. And kind of getting everything, you know, everything situated in my mouth the way that I'd like it to be. And she's like, okay, well the orthodontist will want a full x-ray, 360 view. We don't have that equipment here. So there's a radiology lab that we recommend people go to. we'll get that set up and. And we have a cleaning available at 4:00 PM today if you'd like to come back. And I was like, awesome. That would be great. I will do that. So I went back later in the a, I went after the appointment, I went down to radiology and had that done. Um, which was of course very quick. That was all done in Spanish, no English. And then I came back for my cleaning. The dental hygienist did not speak English, so that was strictly done in Spanish and

Rebecca:

like your Spanish was adequate and up to the task?

Aimee:

did, it was kind of awesome. It was really cool. Yeah, I didn't have, I didn't have much trouble at all and I learned what the word was for soft plaque and I've. Forgotten it, but I heard that word for the first time. I didn't understand what she was referring to, and I asked instead of not asking. And her explanation was something that I understood, and that was really kind of exciting. So the whole process went much, much better than I had expected it to, and one would think that that would give me enough. Confidence and oomph and stamina to then immediately go out and establish a general practitioner because that also needs to be done. But it has been seven days and I have not yet summoned the will to go to the clinic and make an appointment to see a regular doctor.

Rebecca:

I mean, I know that every single time I accomplish even the smallest new administrative or personal care life care task. It's sort of like when your phone is suddenly outta battery and you're like, but I didn't even use you. But clearly it takes a lot more effort and courage to do these things than I, than we think it should. And there is a period of time where you have to like recharge.

Aimee:

Yeah, I just want someone to go with me. I want, like that's the big thing. I want someone to hold my hand and go with me, which feels really lame because I'm an American and I think I should be able to do everything by myself.

Rebecca:

I get it though. I, I, there's a prescription that I have needed to fill. I tried it, I tried to fill it right before we moved to France, and for various reasons it was a fail. I'm like, I'll figure it out when I get there. It's been 16 months. I have obviously not figured it out. I will be briefly in the United States, week after next, and I'm. Literally, I just emailed my old doctor and I said, Hey, can you send this prescription across the country to this Walmart? Because we plan to go to Walmart to try and find Italian seasoning, which you cannot find in

Aimee:

Right.

Rebecca:

amongst some other things. And I'm laughing at myself because. It. It's so silly. Like you not finding the GE general practitioner the other day. I was so excited to talk to you about this and I wanna go back to the dental conversation because I just saw the most fabulous reel by Tady McLeod, who's that comedian that I went to see right before we did the Camino. And she's British slash French and she's hilarious. And she is now living in Paris. So this is somebody not American, she's from Britain, and she goes to the dentist and she sees a hygienist and they ha they, she says they pull out all this fancy equipment. She says it feels expensive, and she gets her teeth cleaned and she goes to pay and they give her the bill, a 43 Euro. And she says, no, no, no. You don't understand. I don't. I'm not on the healthcare system. I need to pay the private fee for this. And the receptionist was very confused and brings the dentist out. And the dentist is very confused and they finally realize what she's saying and they're like, that is the private fee. 43 euros. That's less than I think, 50 bucks.

Aimee:

Yeah.

Rebecca:

Total and it's just mind blowing. And yet I can't bring myself to go on to Dr. Leb, make an appointment, ask for what I need to ask for. And it is weird because you're like, what? You is the gremlin in my head that makes me think that calling my old doctor and dealing with American pricing for prescriptions. Is a better idea. So of course

Aimee:

I don't know, but that gremlin, that gremlin lives in my head too. And while I was in the States, the first winter, my very first visit back, I had my doctor order six months of medication. For me, I paid 700. No, it was almost a grand for all my meds and for a six month supply, and I am. Refusing to do that again because I know it's gonna be so much cheaper here. But what that means is I'm not taking my meds consistently so I can draw it out.

Rebecca:

That is really interesting to hear because again, same boat, you being in the medical world makes that extra amusing to

Aimee:

I know, I know. It's, it's, um, so many, so many layers of illogical foolishness and all I need, like all that would, I mean, I guess, you know, when I let the gremlins yammer, they are, it's, the concern is like, what if I go to the doctor and. The medication that I need isn't here. Like, what if it's not available in Spain, and what if then I have to figure out, like get the whole, like find something else, get the dosing all dialed in. Again, I don't wanna do that. And I did put this deadline on myself because I am going back to the States in about a week, eight days. I'm going back to the states. And I wanna have this answer as to whether or not I can access this medication here, because if not, I have an opportunity in the States to fill up so that I actually take the shit consistently and don't need to be taking naps one o'clock in the afternoon every day.'cause I'm tired. Um.

Rebecca:

logistically, what would that take? I know what it would take me. I haven't done it, but I know it would take me here in France. What would it take you to? Accomplish what you think you need to do in Spain.

Aimee:

I have a clinic that I think could help me hypothetically, I would walk down to this clinic with my insurance card. I would say I need to make an appointment with a doctor because I am. Know I'm running out of medication and hypothetically an appointment could be made within a week'cause it wouldn't be in the public system. And then hypothetically, I would see the doctor and say, this is what I'm taking. Can you please help me get more of this here? And they would say yes, or they would say no, and then I would have the answer that I needed. I be,

Rebecca:

challenge each other

Aimee:

oh my God.

Rebecca:

two doctor appointments?

Aimee:

Scared.

Rebecca:

But this is, it's so funny because like I, I deal with this with interior design clients or I used to where I'm like, okay, but you don't even know what a new fence will cost. You don't even know what the window that you of your dreams will cost. Like you need a number. In order to make a decision, and it's, here we are, you and me, both of us, and you're going, well, what if they don't have the medication? I'd be like, well, at least you would know.

Aimee:

Right, and then I could take action immediately because I'll be going to the states. I could call up my doctor and say, Hey, remember how I asked you for six months of thyroid meds back in the day? Can you do that again please? And just pony up the cash.

Rebecca:

Because I assume you have no sense of assuming it exists. I assume you have no sense of what it would cost in Spain in comparison.

Aimee:

I don't. If Ozempic is any indication, it would be 90% cheaper here than in the States. I know, I know that's not gonna be the case because, one of them is generic and, and the other is not. You know, so obviously generic is not, 90% more from one country to another. But the name brand one, I don't know. It's, it's like a compound. It's, yeah. I don't even know. I don't know if I can get it here or not. So, and the standard of care meds for, for Hashimoto's, which is a, a thyroid condition, hypothyroidism, the standard of care in the US doesn't work. Or actually the standard of care worldwide doesn't work for me. It makes my symptoms worse and it's taken years to figure out what the dosing, what I need to take for me to function well. And yeah, now that I think about it, you know, I, I really haven't, I really have not been functioning well for several months. Not, you know, I'm operating at probably 60% of what a normal would be. Um. It feels, it, it presents itself as a lack of motivation and to some degree, with all the stuff that's going on in, you know, personally with family, that could be true, but, but needing an nap in the afternoon is not, that's not a typical behavior for me, so,

Rebecca:

And. Even if it's not because of the medication, it's best to eliminate what could be getting in the way, you know,

Aimee:

right, right.

Rebecca:

at your best in your, you know, at your best ability without beating yourself up for being like, why am I so tired? When

Aimee:

Oh, I'm not beating myself up. I'm just like, I'm tired. I don't effing care right now. And you know, I think because I don't have a list of a huge amount of things that need to be done, um, because of the changes that I'm making, I. That there's not much to beat myself up about, so it's just sort of this nebulous malaise, and while I'm sure I would get much more out of my life if I had the energy that was possible, if I took my medication consistently, not taking my medication consistently. Does not threaten my life. It does not, you know, it doesn't carry, it's not like diabetes medication, right? Or heart meds

Rebecca:

I mean, okay. I hear what you're saying, but I also feel like if a client were saying that to you, you would be like, oh. Okay, but also.

Aimee:

Okay. But also, yes. Do I wanna get more out of my time here? Probably, I probably would be happier if I had more energy and didn't, you know, need to prop myself up with a glass of wine to get through making dinner in the evening. That

Rebecca:

and you say you're not beating yourself up, but I have heard you in the past say you know that your running isn't at the performance that you would like it to be, or that your Spanish comprehension isn't at the level it would be, and I assume that exhaustion from not having the meds quite aligned could affect those things as well.

Aimee:

Definitely the running. I hadn't considered language comprehension. That would be an interesting experiment.

Rebecca:

It really struck me though when you said you're drawing out the meds and not taking them consistently, because that's something that has happened for me. I mean, exactly the same way, and it's such a silly mental. Game that we're playing with ourselves. It's, it doesn't, there's no logic there, but it also occurs to me, you know, for me it's, it's some vitamins and stuff that definitely boost my wellness, but it's not like a thyroid condition. When you have something like a thyroid condition, it can be so hard to get the meds right that, you know, I don't know if it, it's appropriate to say it triggers the PTSD of going through it, but you. I would that you don't wanna face it again, and therefore there's an avoidance that goes with that.

Aimee:

I don't wanna face it again, I am you. I'm afraid that doctors here, will be worse at listening and responding to my needs than physicians in the us. And you know, I say that not because physicians in the US are better, but because for the last 20 years I've seen predominantly naturalpathic and holistic healthcare providers that do take the time, that do listen, that take their medical career in a different direction and are more patient focused.

Rebecca:

not finding that available where you are.

Aimee:

No, no. Um, if I recall correctly, naturopathic physicians here in, in, at least in Spain, probably the EU don't have prescribing power like they do on the states. It's. Exclusively a holistic focus on things like, you know, herbs and tinctures and homeopathy is super big here because like in Germany it's, it's, it's major. Um, and homeopathy is weird that my, my brain has a really hard time struggling to, see that as a valid alternative. But it's certainly not anything that I think anybody would recommend for treating a thyroid condition. Right.

Rebecca:

No.

Aimee:

one would hope not. not gonna make my labs and my energy levels like good

Rebecca:

It's interesting to think about the naturopathy because I hadn't at all, my doctor in the States was a naturopath, but she was also a full physician, could prescribe all the, the Western meds I wanted, and she was a really good balance of both of those things. You know, you and I have talked so many times about the food quality here in Europe and some other things that are so different from in the United States. And then there's the fact that healthcare isn't privatized the same way here as it is in the United States. I don't, I've never thought about this question. I'm just wondering what your, what your thoughts are. Do you feel like European medicine is very westernized? Do you feel like maybe it's more holistic, like. In general, and they don't have to have this split between Western and eastern care. I'm curious just what your, what little you know right now about all this

Aimee:

Well, I have zero experience.

Rebecca:

as we know.

Aimee:

To speak with any kind of authority. My understanding, based on what I have heard from people I know who also live here and have been brave enough to step foot into a doctor's office for one reason or another, it is that it is no more holistic than you would find in the us like you mentioned with Damien's surgery, I think what is true is they're less likely to throw a whole bunch of shit at you unnecessarily.

Rebecca:

Yeah.

Aimee:

And they're much more conservative with their approach to medicine here. You know, you go to the doctor because you have the flu and the doctor's like, well, there's nothing I can do for this. And they send you home or maybe, you know, recommended decongest at the pharmacy for you. And that's the extent of it. Whereas up until very recently when we figured out it was a huge freaking mistake, people would go to the doctor's office for the virus and be given a round of antibiotics. Just in case. Right? Which is, don't even get me started. It makes me so outrageously angry and that kind of Tom Foolery is not happening here, likely, exclusively because they are on a public system, which demands that they use their money wisely.

Rebecca:

I was thinking the same reasoning. Yeah. It's not necessarily that they're kinder or better, but the system itself is set up so differently that it naturally will have different, outcomes, results, and responses.

Aimee:

Right, right. And there has been, there has been some, some research done that suggests that, medical. Medicine, prescribed medications and botched procedures and medical care itself may be the third leading cause of death in the United States. Medication mismanagement, like this is people taking things as recommended and the recommendations being wrong, right? Or unnecessary surgeries or miscalculating anesthesia, right? Anything like that. Um, and the amount of unnecessary death due to overmedicalization. Or mismanagement of medicine is going to be much, much higher in the US because it is a profit driven system that does not need to concern itself with being fiscally conservative in treatments.'cause that's not their problem. Their problem is making sure they get paid.

Rebecca:

Yeah, yeah. Which brings us to the perfect full circle moment. So you wrap up your appointment, I assume you had a bill. I.

Aimee:

did. Okay. Okay. So this was the coolest part. The dentist is like, yeah, come back four o'clock. We can do your cleaning then, because you've done such a good job, you know, with your oral hygiene, there's not a lot for us to do, so you'll get our discounted rate for your cleaning. And I was like, that's cool.

Rebecca:

And not something that I've ever heard of ever.

Aimee:

Exactly, exactly. So my last cleaning at a holistic dentist outside of the Seattle area, it was an hour's drive to get there was$250 for the cleaning out of pocket my cleaning, which with a five euro discount for being such a good girl at home was 60 euro.

Rebecca:

Oh my gosh.

Aimee:

My exam,

Rebecca:

for you.

Aimee:

I'm so happy for me too. And I told myself immediately, gosh, imagine how cheap my meds will be here. But has that gotten my butt out the door? No. No it hasn't. But it was 60 euro for the exam. It was 60 euro for the cleaning. It was 35 euro for the full. Circumference x-rays

Rebecca:

I'm sorry, 35 Euro.

Aimee:

35 Euro. Yep. For 360 x-rays of my head for the orthodontist. And yeah, so all of that I cost me basically reworking my entire day around, you know, getting these appointments done.'cause they could all be done same day. And 155 Euro.

Rebecca:

Awesome. Well, I don't know if you are going to take the challenge, but I am officially committing here in our podcast to looking on Dr. Lib. Dr. Lib. It's D-O-C-L-I-B. It's a website that literally. Everybody uses to find and schedule with a doctor and then I understand that once you have a doctor you schedule directly with them. But this is seems to be the entry portal for all things doctor in France. So I'm going to go on there. Well, I'm, I just need to find somebody who can give me a new prescription.'cause the script that I need is not available over the counter. Some things are and aren't between the two countries. And I am going to at least log, all I'm committing to is logging into the website and seeing if I can accomplish this within, say, a half hour timeframe. That's enough. That's enough of a bite. I'm gonna take that little nibble and see what happens.

Aimee:

Okay, I will commit to walking down to the clinic and asking for an appointment with my insurance card.

Rebecca:

Look at us. We're so brave.

Aimee:

Yeah. Yeah. I don't feel brave right now.

Rebecca:

But this is I, this is, I think, such a good place for us to finish this because if anybody out there is listening, this is really what it feels like and this is the bites that you end up taking because it's, I mean, at least in our experience, it's all you can do at one time. So if you're feeling dumb about it, don't, or

Aimee:

you're, you don't have to be dumb alone. We will be dumb with you.

Rebecca:

Exactly.

Aimee:

it's, it is. It is hilarious how much the process of moving to a foreign country infantilizes you in a way, you know?

Rebecca:

And humbles you both. It turns you back into a child and it makes you remember that. Uh, I don't know what it makes you remember that adulting is hard and, um, for those of you who are still in the United States, enjoy the familiarity of everything because while there's a lot that, that we get to have by being in Europe right now, that you don't get to have.

Aimee:

Familiarity is not one of those things.

Rebecca:

It is not, and it is something to be embraced and treasured because there's always something good about the situation that we're in, if we remember to look at that, not just things we're lacking.

Aimee:

A hundred percent.

Rebecca:

Um, well next week we won't be, recording because we're both headed off to the United States, so we'll see everybody on the other side of that and, uh, keep you caught up on what's happening in our European and slash Travely lives, because there's about a lot of that coming in summertime here.

Aimee:

There definitely is. Alright, until next time we meet.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person, brave enough to move abroad. See you next time.