Bonjhola

EP 92: Last Week's Bomb Drop Explained - Aimee might NOT be moving!

• Rebecca West

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Speaker

Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each move from the United States to Europe to become expats. Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure. Encourage you to follow your own, move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

Aimee

Rebecca,

Rebecca

I know that we are both very exhausted and we are only outta the kindness of our hearts showing up today because we left our listeners on a cliffhanger and we can't leave them there for too long. So.

Aimee

you must be like me in that. You envision that we do actually have more than two listeners and therefore we owe it to them to continue with where we left off last time, uh,

Rebecca

know, all I know is that I had somebody recently, and of course I can't remember off the top of my head who you were, dear listener, but somebody said, oh, I think I just listened to the last episode, and then they commented on it. Wow. And I can't remember what the comment was. So how's that for vague,

Aimee

and you didn't tell me, so I don't get to share in that.

Rebecca

I know you know what? It was a written message. So here's today's cliffhanger. I'm gonna figure out who that was, and you're gonna get a shout out in our next episode

Aimee

Thank you, Rebecca. My goodness.

Rebecca

anyway. What's the news, Amy,

Aimee

Okay, well, do you remember what I left us off with last week?

Rebecca

vaguely, that you might not ruin my life and leave Europe?

Aimee

Well. If ever you had a reason to like Mr. Um, to like our current president, this would be it.

Rebecca

Okay, so to catch anybody up who hasn't listened to all of our episodes and somehow fell into this one. As you hopefully know, I moved to France and Amy moved to Spain about two-ish years ago, but Amy's chapter has been possibly coming to at least a pause, if not a close. She's been talking about moving back to the States, which breaks my heart, and then last episode, she literally throws the bomb that that might not happen and we'd run out of time.

Aimee

Yes. So, essentially up until January of this year, yeah. The plan was June. We are going back because that is in likely in the best interest of, um, our family's future collectively in the big sense of family, not just me, my husband, and my son. Right. Um, there's some family stuff going on that needs tending to that. I have been trying in the last year to make some headway with, going back and forth from the states every couple months, but not really making as much headway as needs to be made. So January comes along and, um, international relations between the European Union and the United States get sort of thrown into a blender. Turned topsy-turvy. And if you happen to be listening to this in 2028 or 2029, I am referring to, um, the president of the United States in 2026, proclaiming that golly g Willickers, he really wants Greenland and he's willing to do whatever it takes to get it. And then the EU backing Denmark with a collective WTF. So between, um. That really disrupting international

Rebecca

the people listening in 2028 and 2029, I'm glad you're listening'cause that means it worked out in some way that things are still clipping along. So, hi y'all.

Aimee

as in, as in the world, hasn't nuked itself.

Rebecca

Yeah, I think that's.

Aimee

And we, we are still, we are still paying for this podcast to be streamable.

Rebecca

That's, I mean, this is amazing. So future, future listeners, we love you.

Aimee

Thank you for listening current listeners. Thank you for listening. Um, so. Effectively, I'm looking at, you know, our current visa. We are on the digital nomad visa in Spain, and the pathway to residency is five years with this visa. When you obtain the visa after being in Spain, like within that 90 day window, right, that you can be in Spain without having a visa, or at least that used to be. Now you have to have a visitor's visa. You can get a three year visa digital nomad, and then you renew for two more years and then you are eligible for residency. So this was our initial plan. A year into this visa, I am made aware that there are things happening at home that would benefit from my attention. So I start traveling back and forth to the states regularly enough that I ruin my opportunity to become a permanent resident in five years. Because you're permitted to leave for up to 10 weeks within those five years.

Rebecca

Oh, but only 10 total within the five years.

Aimee

Yeah. Even though, which, uh, to me doesn't make sense because if you're here for six months or more, you have to pay taxes. So why would they create something more strict about your movement within the world? As long as you're a tax paying resident, why the hell do they care? But evidently they do. So, you know. My assumption is that well, it can just keep renewing on the digital nomad visa and the residency is gonna be deferred for a bit, right? But it's become clear that,, it's probably best that we go back to the states, so that way things can be taken care of in a more, in a more cohesive, consistent, and effective way. And that has been the plan for the last year, however. The visa expires this coming October, 2026. So the idea was, well, we'll finish most of this visa, go back when school ends and get established in my home state.

Rebecca

And that's partly because you'd already lost the chain so you didn't feel like you were losing something from the

Aimee

yeah, it's, yeah, it's getting the most out of this three years that we're allotted. Right.

Rebecca

And since you have to restart anyway, but you can just take care of family first,

Aimee

Yeah. And honestly, I don't know what the restart process looks like. Right. certainly the expectation is, well, we'll be gone for who knows how long, so when we come back, we'll have to restart the process

Rebecca

right? Which of course could look really different because these countries are constantly changing all of the rules.

Aimee

which is why now I am reconsidering. There was no reason last year to think that. Being an American would be problematic when looking at, moving to the EU or moving to Spain to establish permanent residency with the way things are going. I cannot say that that's gonna be the case after three more years of this, or, you know, if you're really buying into the fear-mongering and speculation who knows how many years of this. Um,

Rebecca

those are the levers that countries pull to influence other countries, like your citizens aren't allowed to come to our country anymore than the citizens who like to travel, get mad. So yeah, this can affect these. Big picture politics, aside from just flight restrictions and all kinds of other things, but they really can affect one of our day to day existences and our choices. These are big deals. What's happening geopolitically is personal.

Aimee

even if things don't change on a government level, how the people of Spain receive an American expat three or four years from now may be different than how they receive an American expat who has been here for 5, 6, 7 years. So there was a lot of uncertainty with the degree and impact that I could make moving back to the states with things. But I was willing to take that risk because I figured the net benefit would end up being positive, looking at, you know, what, am I gonna regret more? Staying or going.

Rebecca

Right. A decision that comes up for a lot of people in our age group. You know, our kids are starting to get old enough that we're thinking about their future and our parents are starting to get old enough. We're thinking about their future.

Aimee

and sometimes both of those generations needs show up at the same time. And that's really fun, folks. Let me tell you, that's just dandy. To try and navigate that. and I know some of you are nodding in agreement because you understand, so you know, January happens and there is a massive increase in violence, and I'm just gonna say it, behavior that is the antithesis of the Constitution and our founding father's ideas of what our country was supposed to be. And, that coupled with international strain has me thinking, if I give up this visa, will we be able to come back and get another one? However, if I, we stay and I renew for the following two years, right? And then we have to cut and go, I would have an active visa. For a little bit after leaving, I mean, this is all stuff I have to talk to a lawyer about, right? Whereas if I left and I was like, oh, this is a huge mistake, I could potentially come back if I was within that visa window. Whereas if I leave in June for a visa that is expiring in October, the chances of me coming back without having to start the process all over again, uh, I don't, I don't see how that, you know, how that could happen. So I'm sitting with this and I'm thinking about this. My kid has been very excited to go back to the States, and that's been the one thing that has really helped me come to terms with stepping away from a dream that took over 20 years to fulfill.

Rebecca

Yeah, because living in Europe was your. Mean first out of the family. Right.

Aimee

Not necessarily Europe just not living in the US has been my, has been my dream since the nineties.

Rebecca

Yeah.

Aimee

Yeah, and it just took me a really long time to make it happen and I'm air quoting here for good because life decided to change that trajectory for me, or at least call it into question. You know, my kid has been excited to go back to the States and a couple weeks ago one of his favorite ice cream, his favorite gelato shops had been closed because,, the holidays are over. It's a slow season. And so they closed a couple weeks for vacation. And he was like, he was like, oh man, I really wanted to go in January so I could get this. I think it was a cherry flavored Greek yogurt. He wanted to try. And I'm really like, oh, I really wanted that. And now they're closed, even though it's still January, I won't be able to get it. And I was like, well, you know,'cause I hadn't told him that I was.

Rebecca

Considering.

Aimee

right, because it's a, you know, he doesn't need to be sitting in this really messy, uncomfortable middle, right? That's not age appropriate. But I just,, nonchalantly said, well, what we could do if you really wanna have the ice cream flavor is we could just not go back to the States, and then next January we'll still be here. And maybe they'll have that flavor again, and you can try it. He said, you know, it's funny because I've been thinking like, I'm really, there are some things that I'm really gonna miss about not being here. And I was like, yeah, me too. And then, At some point, at some point I must have said. Something to the effect of, if you decide that you don't wanna leave, we'll stay. He has that idea in his head that if he said, I don't wanna go, that we would stay. and either he has that idea because I've said to hi, because he, you

Rebecca

Oh, you're saying that his, that came from him. You didn't say that to him. He's gotten it in his head that.

Aimee

He's got it in his head. I don't remember explicitly telling him. I may have explicitly told him that we would reconsider. Right? Like if he really wanted to stay, that we would reconsider going. And if I had said that, it would've been very early on. But his general, his general sentiment has been like. USA Walmart. Yes. Hell yeah. And, and family. He really, he does, he does miss family and wants better relationships with them. So, last week he, it was actually after we recorded last week, I was walking around town with him and he said, mom, I think I wanna stay. And I was like. Come again. Say what he is like. Yeah, I am. My friends are gonna miss me a lot. I'm really gonna miss them. He's at an age now where He rides the public bus around town freely. has a friend that lives a couple miles away and they ride public transport home from school. Every day. And you know, once or twice a week they will leave and walk around town together, you know, and go buy Pokemon cards, hang out, get ice cream, whatever, or just hang out. Right. He is totally permitted to wander around town by himself if we're working. I have no problems with that. Just give him a set of keys with an error tag.

Rebecca

guessing that that wouldn't be the case for his age group in the United States,

Aimee

No f-ing.

Rebecca

have to ask this question.

Aimee

No effing way.

Rebecca

Yeah.

Aimee

No way in hell. Absolutely

Rebecca

share his age with our listeners so they have a sense.

Aimee

Yeah. He's 12 and a half, so he is just, he is just slightly past the age where a nice, well-meaning do-gooder would call CPS on us if he was in the car by himself, or if he was seen by himself and one of us was not seen. Obviously connected to him. Um, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that is the case in rural areas or in more conservative states, but certainly in Seattle they, well, actually not in Seattle, certainly in the Pacific Northwest, because there are smaller cities in Oregon where I've had, I've had friends get CPS called on them because. Because dad looked scruffy and had a beard and the kid was on the bike and he looked suspicious.

Rebecca

as a parent isn't about the kid getting kidnapped or lost, it's about being called as a parent or having the CPS called,

Aimee

Yeah. It's, it's having CPS come and investigate you for child neglect or child abuse because somebody decides that whatever.

Rebecca

What's, what's coming to my mind as I listen to all of this? Your choice. Oh, oh.

Aimee

I say that, hold on. I say that. I say that as the mother of a son. If I had a daughter, I would also be concerned about sex trafficking

Rebecca

Different, different gender, different uh,

Aimee

Yeah. Yeah. And, and kidnapping risk, I feel would be higher. Um,

Rebecca

Yeah. Not to mention that girls can get pregnant and boys can only impregnate.

Aimee

Well, hopefully, you know, hopefully there aren't many 12-year-old girls getting pregnant in the United States these days.

Rebecca

Um, sure.

Aimee

Well, I heard that Gen Z doesn't have sex at all.

Rebecca

Well, that'll help with the global population.

Aimee

are not, no, they don't leave the house. They're not dating. They don't drink and they don't have sex. Like this generation doesn't, I don't know what they're doing, but they're not living life the way we did growing up. That's for sure.

Rebecca

Well that's good.'cause obviously that is what I was calling hearkening too, was I was like, I know what my friends were doing back in Kansas and Kentucky and Michigan and

Aimee

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's, I don't think that's as much of a thing anymore. So he told me that, you know, he told me that and that, you know, he's feeling really close with his friends and, um, he's not sure he wants to go back. So that's not the glaring green flag to stay that I'm wanting. But it is another piece of information that has me thinking. Maybe we'll at least keep our visa current and I can continue doing what I've been doing because I've already botched my chances, of being able to qualify for residency in five years. So why the F not

Rebecca

Yeah.

Aimee

So I need to, I need to kind of coalesce my thoughts and reach out to my lawyer and see what she says about. All of that, and I have to craft it in such a way that I only ask at max two questions in an email if I want them to actually be answered because

Rebecca

that a cultural thing or a.

Aimee

I don't know. I have no idea. But if you ask too many questions in an email, like the first one, maybe the second one gets answered and everything else gets like totally ignored. So you have to.

Rebecca

That's funny. What this whole thing brings up to me is how. Individual, every single expat immigrant's path is, and the constant decision matrix that's in the back of our minds trying to figure out what the right next step is. And how to secure our future. And, you know, the, the beginning of it is really generational. I've, I've met so many young women who are, you know, 26 and they come here as an au pair where they're teaching English and they don't have a care in the world. They also have zero money, but they have no responsibilities. Whereas, you know, people of our age. We're thinking, we're starting to think about our retirement, like what is that gonna look like? What is our health gonna look like in those years? If you're a parent like you, you're thinking about the transition from your children being children to being adults. Where are they gonna live? Where are they gonna

Aimee

Yeah,

Rebecca

Meanwhile, our parents are aging. So all of that's in our minds. And then if you're a retiree thinking about doing this frequently, there's a fixed income. And again, the visa rules for each of these circumstances are completely different and the tax implications are completely different. It's, it's like a, I don't even know what kind of. To, is it chess? Is it Jenga? Is it mono? Is it all of it? It's so confusing.

Aimee

And honestly some people don't have that many questions about it. You know, there are people who have gone to whatever country they've immigrated to, like, oh, we go every summer to this place. We know we like it and you know, we're empty nesters, parents are dead. It's a done deal. Peace out. We're retiring in Costa Rica. Right. Or, um, someone.

Rebecca

those people are gonna be worrying about, you know, do they have. I mean they, I mean, if you're retiring and you're getting into those years of your life, you have the same worries. But it's one thing to navigate a medical system you've grown up with. It's another to navigate a foreign medical system.

Aimee

Oh yeah. In terms of once you're actually here, but I think the question of. Will I keep staying or will I go back? I think for in many circumstances, that is not as fraught as my, my situation and even your situation, which is a perpetual well, where are we going next? What's, where are we gonna live in six weeks?

Rebecca

Remind me. Oh, I, I look forward. My husband has, my husband and I are both saying that we both envision ourselves with the property within about five years. So we think that we will, within the next five years, pick a country. Um, and obviously the, the Portugal citizenship will have a lot of bearing on that. So, um, actually, I guess in news in. 8, 7, 6 in six days, I'm going to Portugal for my biometrics appointment.

Aimee

It's so exciting.

Rebecca

It's crazy, like it feels surreal. I've been waiting so long for it, and all of my brain is on the fact that two days later I'll be in Florida giving a presentation and then hanging out with my family, whom I love, but is on the Republican side of everything political.

Aimee

Which matters because you're not.

Rebecca

Yeah, I'm on the other side. Like we couldn't be more away, away from each other in terms of our worldview and in the, so like my brain is on going to Florida, will I get into Florida? Like, will I get into the United States? I know that's. A stupid thing to worry about, and yet, given the geopolitical situation, I can't help but worry about it. So will I get in? Then I have to worry about giving my presentation and then I'm having this family reunion that was planned long before Mr. Trump did all the things that he has done this year and last. Yet this huge, huge meeting in Portugal is happening in the middle. It this B totally my, and

Aimee

Yeah,

Rebecca

a panic going, oh my.

Aimee

right. Oh yeah. That's important thing. Don't forget the important thing. So are you flying from Paris to Portugal, back to Paris for that? Over those two days.

Rebecca

am because the ticket turns out the ticket that I bought to go to the United States with. It's changeable, but not, I can't change the countries. So what I wanted to do was change. I wanted to go from Paris to Portugal, Portugal to Florida. Then I would not, I'm gonna miss most of the conference. I'm actually missing several events I was supposed to go to, but not my presentation. So, yeah, not only so the, so I fly on Sunday, I will stay overnight in Portugal'cause it's very important to me to not miss this meeting. That afternoon, I'm gonna go to the meeting. The lawyer who's been helping me will apparently be there at this meeting. Apparently there's a whole lineup of people doing it, so it's sounds very, you know, just bureaucratic. I'm assuming it will go easily that same night I fly back, but I'm not flying. To, to the United States until the day after, which is great'cause it gives me a cushion in case the meeting is longer than I expected. But the reason I made that choice was because on the 17th there were no direct flights, and since I'm already nervous about customs and stuff. I wanted at least there to only be two points. One in one in Europe, one in Florida where I'm speaking. So that'll happen on the 18th. I get in at 10:00 PM and I speak at 10:00 AM the next morning, and

Aimee

Oh God

Rebecca

this in the hands of all that is good and saying I will show up. I hope that all the other parts that need to show up due to,

Aimee

damn.

Rebecca

yeah, it's a lot.

Aimee

I do not envy you.

Rebecca

But I'll get to see my husband after 48 days of being apart, which we have both agreed is much too long. It was all set in motion by things that kind of made sense as we went along. And we will not do this by choice again. We can do about three weeks. And then what's the point of being married to somebody that you enjoy having as a companion if you're not together? Companioning.

Aimee

exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I did learn last year that two months is way too long to be away from my family. I won't do that

Rebecca

boy who's growing up.'cause they, they changed so much

Aimee

I know, I know. Yeah. At this point, if I left for two months, I'd come back and he would be like full on Yeti with a bunch of facial hair and

Rebecca

that is possible at that age.

Aimee

it's kind of crazy how much he's growing right now.

Rebecca

Well, okay, so folks, it'll actually be a couple of weeks before you hear from us again. So on the other side of that little break, which will, you know, in podcast time will be no time at all, um, I will have gone to Portugal. I will have gone to the United States

Aimee

As will I

Rebecca

as we'll. Have Amy. We'll both be back. Hopefully having successfully made all of those journeys and we'll report back on how it's all gone.

Aimee

until next time.

Speaker 2

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person, brave enough to move abroad. See you next time.