Bonjhola

EP 98: Traveling and Racing in Portugal

• Rebecca West

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Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each move from the United States to Europe to become expats. Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure. Encourage you to follow your own, move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

Rebecca

Banjela, Amy

Aimee

Bonjola, Rebecca

Rebecca

We're gonna talk about travel today because you just traveled to Portugal from a marathon, or for a marathon.

Aimee

for a half-marathon.

Rebecca

A half-marathon.

Aimee

Trust me, the extra 13 miles really makes a difference when you're doing a full

Rebecca

I imagine that is true. I know a lot of people think it's super easy to get around in Europe. It's just like going from, you know, Minnesota to Ohio. Is it that easy? You've lived here for three years now

Aimee

Mm-hmm. I think most many Americans going from Minnesota to Ohio would probably drive. We did not drive to Portugal. but with regards to interstate airline travel, yes, it is that easy. Some would argue even easier because we didn't rent a car or anything when we got to Portugal. So our travel within the EU typically looks like a 10-minute walk to the train station. We take the train from Girona to Barcelona, and then take a cab from the Barcelona train station to the airport. Now, if we wanted to, we could take the metro directly from the train station to the airport as well, but we typically take a taxi because it's half the time to get there, even though it's, you know, 10 times as much money And then we're at the airport. Um, Yes, they did check our passport once when we were boarding the plane, and that was the only time our passport was checked.

Rebecca

And that was when you were going from Spain to Portugal

Aimee

Correct. Correct. As we were about to board the plane. And then once we arrived in Porto, we left the airport, took a train directly from the airport into, Porto, and then ate dinner and took the train from Porto to Aveiro, where,, we walked from the train station 10 minutes to our Airbnb.

Rebecca

Okay, so this was all in one day. You took the train from Germany to the airport, f- um, did some taxiing, airport to Porto, train to your next destination after dinner. That's a lot of travel in one day.

Aimee

It is,

Rebecca

Do you ever

Aimee

but it's

Rebecca

about missed connections and stuff when there's so many different legs you're putting together?

Aimee

Totally. But only recently here in Spain because There was a, and some of our listeners may be aware of it 'cause it did make international news. There was a big train accident here in Spain, uh, several months ago, and that highlighted the fact that the Spanish railway system, particularly on the slower regional trains, the tracks are old, they haven't been well-maintained, and with all of the rain that we have gotten after at least five years of drought, it has really destabilized things, and this is what contributed to the train accident. And so now they are working on updating and repairing and fixing the train lines, and any time there's any kind of inclement weather, they're being extra, extra cautious now because of what's happened. So there is a very common train line from Madrid to Barcelona that often gets delayed by 20 minutes to an hour, depending on randomness.

Rebecca

Mm-hmm.

Aimee

Uh, that then impacts our train coming back, and in fact, this happened on our way back home from the marathon. Our train was delayed 45 minutes, and it was that route specifically. So- What's really great is that was on the way back and not on the way to the airport.

Rebecca

Yeah, absolutely

Aimee

yeah, the high-speed train, I've still not have any, I've still not had any issues coming into Barcelona. And this was actually the first time there was a significant issue leaving Barcelona. But I have a friend who takes the train into Barcelona all the time, and she says, yeah, it's, it's late often right now. But in Portugal and, you know, our experiences in Rome, in Germany, trains are very In France, trains are very, very reliable. It's not anything you need to worry about

Rebecca

Yeah. I also have never been to... I've been to Porto, but not to the Porto Airport. I have been to the Lisbon Airport, which I find surprisingly hard to navigate. It's not a huge airport, but it is not well laid out. It is not well signed. How was the Porto Airport?

Aimee

I think it was fine. Everything seemed really easy. There wasn't a lot of confusion. Um, my brain was not really present for a lot of, a lot of things. In fact, I had set our train tickets coming back. I had, um... When I was making the train tickets a couple days before we left, I accidentally set our return trip for the day of the race, not the day that we were actually coming back. So our return tickets in Spain did not work, but there was a long line, the train had been delayed, the guy was in a hurry, so he's like, "Just go, just go, just go." And then it wasn't until I sat on the train that I realized, oh, these tickets were made for yesterday. Whoops.

Rebecca

Oh my gosh.

Aimee

And I... But because we're not in Germany, the Spaniards are more like, you know, "Let's go, let's go, let's go. It's not a big deal." Um, the no pasa nada culture, right?

Rebecca

Yeah, for sure. And that is definitely m- more of a Spanish thing than I would say some of the other countries here

Aimee

Yeah, I would expect that kind of thing in Italy as well, but not in France or Germany

Rebecca

Um, so speaking of differences between countries, have you noticed any difference doing a marathon, in this case a half-marathon, in Europe versus in the United States?

Aimee

Oh, 100%. This is actually my second race in Europe. I did a 10K, uh, right after we arrived a few years ago. And they only acknowledge the top three finishers overall. So for instance, a 22-year-old speed demon can rin a ra- win a race and get a medal or a little trophy. But your 82-year-old grandmother who comes in first place in her age group gets nothing. And honestly, when we're looking about accomplishments overall, I really think that the older folk should be appropriately recognized. That is not a thing here.

Rebecca

They just don't have categories at all?

Aimee

No, they do have categories, but in the States, the top three per age group will get some extra recognition, not just, not just the finisher's medal, right? Everybody gets a finisher's medal. Top three per age group usually gets something a little bit extra,

Rebecca

Hmm

Aimee

and that's not the case here. And in some of the smaller races, um, there isn't even really any kind of finisher's take-home thing that you get at, at all. And they're pretty good about giving you something to take home when you finish a race in the States

Rebecca

Like a participation medal basically

Aimee

Uh, a participation medal, a shirt, you know, something like that. Something like that, yeah. So that w- that's one big thing I noticed. all of the races that I've done have been pretty well organized. No complaints there. The thing that I found a little bit frustrating with Aveiro was that It was not clear how to find your official results after the race. I'm accustomed in the States, nowadays when you finish there are usually, there's usually a screen that's clocking, like, official results as they're going in, particularly with larger races, and this is a very large race. It is a racing weekend. There's a 5K and a 10K on Saturday, a half marathon and full marathon on Sunday. It is an international race. People come from all over Europe because this is a fast, flat course. And there were probably about 10,000 runners. So I expected it to be a bit more, uh, tech-savvy, upscale than, than it was. Um, very small, uh, pre-race expo. I got a killer deal on some shoes that, the, the shoes that I run in, so I was super happy about that. But it was quite small, and I was surprised at how, how small it was. So for this race at the finish they have you go to their Instagram page to get a link to go to a third-party website to find your results 24 hours after the race is finished

Rebecca

That is not a direct path

Aimee

It is not a direct path, and this was not... I don't know where, how it was stated that other people had this knowledge. I did not have this knowledge. I actually came back several hours after I finished to ask somebody what was going on, and I ran into some marathoners who had finished, and I just asked them, 'cause I heard them speaking Spanish. So I was like, "Oh, you speak a language I know." Um, and so I asked them when we could find the results, and, and they said it'll be on their Instagram page tomorrow. I was like, "So weird, but okay." And sure enough, that's where you find the results

Rebecca

So this was your first time in Portugal. What's

Aimee

It was

Rebecca

overall experience?

Aimee

Um, well, I've only been to the small little town of Aveiro, which advertises itself as the Venice of Portugal, and that I think is by and large wishful thinking, but it's a cute concept. They have their own gondolas, um, and you can do a gondola tour, which is really lovely. however, it is, it is nothing like Venice. Um,

Rebecca

nothing is like Venice

Aimee

it's true, nothing is like Venice. But I would say that the gondolas are not a major form of transportation. Their waterways are not a form of transportation, for the people there. And so in that aspect, it is nothing like Venice. It is like Venice in that there are a couple of canals with gondolas that were traditionally used by the fishermen back in the day

Rebecca

Got it. And why is it watery? Is it on the... I actually don't know the area. Is it on the coast? Are these canals? what kind of water are we dealing with?

Aimee

It is saltwater. They have a long history of making salt in Aveiro, so it is a salt-making community, and they still do that. Um, they also are, noted for their salted cod, but that is by and large a Portuguese thing throughout the country. and eel is a big food there as well

Rebecca

Great. It's not one of my preferred foods.

Aimee

Nor mine.

Rebecca

Um, so would you go back to Portugal? And if so, would you go back to the same area?

Aimee

I would definitely go back to Portugal. I feel like I saw very, very little of it, and not enough to even really get a good feeling of the place. I'm obsessed with the, the tiles that are everywhere. I am obsessed, and when I actually have my own property, I want to collect Portuguese tiles and figure out some kind of way to decorate my home with them, because they are unbelievably varied and gorgeous and often hand-painted. On the sides of buildings, just gorgeous, gorgeous hand-painted tiles. So I took pictures of tiles all weekend. All weekend. I've got these... I've got, like, 78 pictures of tiles on my phone over the course of, like, 36 hours.

Rebecca

You are not the first person to get bitten by that bug. I, off the top of my head, can think of four or five different clients who wanted me to integrate their Portuguese tiles into their designs. One of the tricky parts, 'cause a lot of times we'd embed it in another ti- field of tile, like kitchen backsplash, but the Portuguese tiles are frequently much thicker than the tiles they're buying to use for the field, so that's something that has to be solved for if you're trying to pair them with other tiles.

Aimee

Yeah. Is that just a matter of extra thick grout?

Rebecca

It's gonna depend entirely on the application. Um, but it's frequently, yes, just a matter of doing a s- an extra thick, uh, mastic. The grout's the stuff between the seams and the

Aimee

Oh, okay.

Rebecca

the sticky stuff. And some tilers are really great at that and some are not, because they just don't wanna do it or they're impatient. But if anybody ever says, "That's, that's impossible," um, they're lying to you. They're just lazy

Aimee

There we go, folks. You heard it here

Rebecca

From an official interior designer married to a contractor, so I really know when they're trying to get away with not doing something

Aimee

You too can integrate Portuguese tiles into your kitchen or bathroom. You just have to talk to somebody who knows what they're doing

Rebecca

Exactly. As I recall, the history of the Portuguese tiles I think goes back to a great big fire when, let's, let's go with Lisbon, I don't know, um, had a big fire 'cause everything was built out of wood, and then they needed to use more fireproof materials. And tile, I believe, all the, the tile buildings the way they are, I think that came out of that

Aimee

That is fascinating. The only thing I know about is that they've been doing it for about 500 years, and it is a source of national pride

Rebecca

Did you notice in particular any differences between Spain and Portugal, aside from the language, obviously?

Aimee

There are a lot more Brazilian restaurants Portugal.

Rebecca

Makes sense

Aimee

It was easier to find where the next Brazilian restaurant would be than it was to find anything advertising itself as traditional Portuguese food, which I thought was super weird. Um, when we were in Porto, we had Indian food because we had a very cranky child who needed something that was going to be unquestioningly reliable, and so we ended up having Indian for dinner. I think the only traditional Portuguese meal I had was a grocery store heat and eat beans and rice dish that was actually quite lovely. Um, they called it chili with rice, but it was more like kidney beans with rice and a little bit of ground pork, I think, mixed in. Um, really quite lovely actually, and it made me miss beans and rice because I don't actually eat a lot of that here. But I had paella. Oh, G- I had an incredible shrimp lime paella for dinner, uh, the night after the race, and it was out of this world. It was so, so good. Absolutely marvelous

Rebecca

what's funny is that comes from your neck of the woods in Spain, the whole

Aimee

Yeah. And I haven't eaten paella in Spain. I've eaten it once in Madrid because I've been like, "I don't really wanna eat paella in Spain because paella is a Valencian food, not a Spanish food. I wanna eat it in Valencia." And then when we were in Valencia, I was like, "All of these places look like tourist hacky places. I don't trust their paella." So I haven't actually had aut- what I would think is authentic paella in Spain

Rebecca

The original one, I believe, was snails and rabbit.

Aimee

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Rebecca

Everybody thinks it's seafood first, but it was not. It was sartorial Anything else people should know about Portugal or going there or leaving there or anything?

Aimee

I mean, really you're the one to ask. You have so much more experience in Portugal than I do. Um, you know, we'd like to go back for sure. I don't think that's something that is realistic in the next seven weeks, but

Rebecca

Yeah, the countdown

Aimee

Yeah. Yeah

Rebecca

Well, if you were going back to Portugal, since I'm apparently an expert, which I am not, what would you want me to share with our listeners?

Aimee

I'm curious actually about the different cities within Portugal. I am curious about the history of the country. One of the things that I discovered while we were there was that Portugal also had a dictatorship up through the '70s that I was completely unaware of. And, I wanna know more about that. That's fascinating. So, uh, I'm curious about Portuguese history. I'm curious about Portuguese food. I did... Oh, I did end up, very last minute, at the train station on the way to the airport, I did find a pastel de nata, which is a typical Portuguese, dessert. And I was like, "You know, I should really try that even though it's a train station pastry. I should try that before I leave." And I don't know if it is indicative of the pastry overall, because it was at a train station cafe, but it was fantastic. It was quite lovely

Rebecca

Yeah, they're quite tasty. It's a little puff pastry shell, and then it's a custard tart. So it's a custard inside of a puff pastry shell. I've had quite a few of them at this point, and I've never noticed a particularly large difference between them from place to place.

Aimee

Oh, that's good to know.

Rebecca

sometimes they're burnt. That definitely is less good.

Aimee

Yeah

Rebecca

so it's funny because three... It's a- yeah, it's three years ago now that I sold my house in Seattle and gave my money to Portugal. So I've been in Portugal, uh, almost six weeks out of every year the last three years. But because our property is on a golf course in the middle of nowhere, it's really c- it's a 20-minute drive to Óbidos, which is the most amazing medieval walled city, but I don't have a car. So I'm just there literally in the middle of a golf course surrounded by nothing. And so I don't- I feel like, yeah, I've spent all this time in Portugal, but I know very little about Portugal. I haven't been down to the south area, the Algarve area, where most people go to vacation. We did go up to Porto, and I think it's one of the most lovely areas in terms of where I'd wanna live. It feels very livable compared to the other areas. My main feeling about Portugal is that because it was so isolated from the rest of Europe, it just feels like it's a decade or two behind good and bad ways. Like you mentioned the technology thing about the race, and I was like, "I am not surprised to hear that."

Aimee

Hmm.

Rebecca

And I don't know if that was a Portuguese thing or a Europe thing, right, and, and the difference, but everything just feels a little bit more like we're still in the '80s or '90s. And it's familiar, right, 'cause I'm old enough, and it's comfortable because people are just more relaxed about things. Not-- Everything's not expected to work. Everything's not expected to be on demand, which at first frustrates you, but then when you settle into it, it also gives you some breathing space to be like, "I don't always have to feel behind." There-- It's like there is no behind. There just is what is

Aimee

Yeah. And so you feel that Portugal has a distinctly different aspect of that than what you've experienced in France, because you also have that ins- experience in France of showing up somewhere and oh, they say they're open on Google, but they're not.

Rebecca

Yeah. No, that's very true. It, it's very different, um, because the France one feels like a cultural positioning. "This is how we're gonna be and don't you dare try to change us." Portugal feels more like it was left behind. It's behind the race. There's, they're not gonna win, at least not right now, like, they are trying. They're in the race. They're trying to get a lot of investment,

Aimee

Yep

Rebecca

but that's gonna take a while to take root, and in the meantime, there are the benefits of that slower, the slower pace of life that you have to do rather than you're choosing. Is that a fair way to say that?

Aimee

Yeah, 100%. I, I understand what you're saying, for sure

Rebecca

Yeah. I find it to be such a fascinating country because it had this huge, huge peak, but it was tiny period of time where, you know, they got all of Brazil, for example, and they were the ones funding the big ships to go and just explore and find things. And then, and then it just evaporated. Like, they must have managed their money poorly and spent too much, and just went, "Well, we're out of money. I guess that development is over."

Aimee

Yeah, yeah, Spain is riddled with historically epic bad business moves as well when it comes to basically giving away empires because they got distracted.

Rebecca

Yeah. Oh, speaking of empires, I joined the British, British Association here in Menton, which is now open to all nationalities. It's the f- the expat hub, if you will. And it was so funny 'cause I went to the AG meeting, just happened to be the first meeting to go to was the general meeting of the year where they're all voting on stuff, and it was so British. It was so funny

Aimee

Did they wear white wigs?

Rebecca

no

Aimee

they wear white George Washington wigs?

Rebecca

So it was in this moment where the president, who's been president for a long time, and she go- she's talking about, I think it was Victory Day last year, and she goes, "So they celebrated by dressing up like US GIs and with their Jeeps and 1950s clothes." And she's like, "I understand that Mentone was freed by US soldiers, but somebody should probably tell them Britain won the war." It was just such a British moment, and it was very funny to me

Aimee

That is really hilarious. And what I was taught in school was not that Britain was responsible for winning the war.

Rebecca

But of course, we're Americans. Of course, we wouldn't have been taught a British-centric way of looking at it

Aimee

And I've been told the Russians also are told that they're the ones who won the war.

Rebecca

Maybe this was a group effort, guys. You know, world war and all.

Aimee

Yeah, but ego's got a ego.

Rebecca

But I'm really excited about this community. It's,, mostly people in their 60s, 70s, and up. That's why she opened it up to other internationalities, because the thing is, ever since Brexit, all these British people who were buying properties and then living here long term couldn't do that anymore. So the flow of Brits dried up big time, and so the association was getting older and dying out, and so they made that decision to make it an open association.

Aimee

Oh, fascinating. I wonder how much it hurt them to do that, like emotionally

Rebecca

I, yeah, I'm sure it depends on the person. But, I found everybody to be so welcoming. They're just, they're nice people, and they're very active. Lots of meetings, lots of aperos, hikes, uh, garden walks.

Aimee

So is it, so it's like a social club for, originally for British foreigners, but opened up to foreigners. English-speaking foreigners or everybody?

Rebecca

In English Like, the meetings are all in English. This is definitely English. So right now we've got Swedes and Brits and Australian people, US people. It's both a social organization, but it's also definitely a charitable organization. So Chamber of Commerce, they're, every year they donate something to the city, like a bench or whatever, and then they pool from, they pull from the pool of money, from dues to help people in need. So, they paid for a night nurse for a lady that needed one, um, who was in hospice

Aimee

Oh my gosh, that's amazing

Rebecca

Yeah. So I'm, I'm excited about this. It feels like a really good place for me to be with people that I would be like-minded with

Aimee

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Awesome

Rebecca

Yeah I'm sure there's other stuff to share

Aimee

I'm sure there is too.

Rebecca

But I can't think of anything else for now, so maybe this is a good time to say goodbye to our listeners and tell them that we'll see them again soon

Aimee

If we've forgotten something important, drop us a line and let us know. We'll be sure to cover it on a future episode.

Rebecca

Absolutely. À la prochaine

Aimee

Hasta pronto

Speaker 2

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person, brave enough to move abroad. See you next time.